But ISSMA wants to make this special, to make it a true state championship. I was reading up on the Finale Nationals recently, and it looks like they really have tried to make that something special, something worth going to. Reserving a marquee space and hiring well known, show choir adjudicators. As far as I'm concerned ISSMA just puts on another regular competition with more restrictions and less atmosphere. The only thing that is different is the name.
I think making it special starts with the space. As I see it, there should be no reason for ISSMA to jack the ticket prices up for a better venue. You make the product good enough and appeal to enough schools, you're going to get spectators. It's the state in which show choir is most popular, come on!
The potential of this event is so great and the execution is so poor. Maybe they just need new leadership. Maybe they need to take a year off and really market it to schools. I'm not sure. I just know that what is happening now is not working.
Others may remember, but I think "State" was at Clowes the first two years (at least one) and each session cost $25+ (this could run into $100s of dollars for a family attending both sessions). It was then moved to Ball State for a year or two. I seem to remember the cost was about the same. Part of the high cost was due to the requirement to use the theater provided professional stage crews and sound people. The sets were keep what seems like miles away from the stage and I think had to be moved via elevator to the stage. The final year at Ball State the sound provided by the theater staff was one of the worst of any contests I have ever attended, unacceptable for "state" in my opinion. The next year they moved it to a high school (LC as I recall), the admission cost was half (much more affordable for a family) and the contest logistics and sound were much better.
It is an "awesome experience" to perform at a major venue but it significantly increases the ticket price, an issue in these economic times. So it is a choice between awesome and economical. I'm sure the students want awesome but I think most parents would prefer economical after spending $$$ to attend an entire season of show choir.
But ISSMA wants to make this special, to make it a true state championship. I was reading up on the Finale Nationals recently, and it looks like they really have tried to make that something special, something worth going to. Reserving a marquee space and hiring well known, show choir adjudicators. As far as I'm concerned ISSMA just puts on another regular competition with more restrictions and less atmosphere. The only thing that is different is the name.
I think making it special starts with the space. As I see it, there should be no reason for ISSMA to jack the ticket prices up for a better venue. You make the product good enough and appeal to enough schools, you're going to get spectators. It's the state in which show choir is most popular, come on!
The potential of this event is so great and the execution is so poor. Maybe they just need new leadership. Maybe they need to take a year off and really market it to schools. I'm not sure. I just know that what is happening now is not working.
Others may remember, but I think "State" was at Clowes the first two years (at least one) and each session cost $25+ (this could run into $100s of dollars for a family attending both sessions). It was then moved to Ball State for a year or two. I seem to remember the cost was about the same. Part of the high cost was due to the requirement to use the theater provided professional stage crews and sound people. The sets were keep what seems like miles away from the stage and I think had to be moved via elevator to the stage. The final year at Ball State the sound provided by the theater staff was one of the worst of any contests I have ever attended, unacceptable for "state" in my opinion. The next year they moved it to a high school (LC as I recall), the admission cost was half (much more affordable for a family) and the contest logistics and sound were much better.
It is an "awesome experience" to perform at a major venue but it significantly increases the ticket price, an issue in these economic times. So it is a choice between awesome and economical. I'm sure the students want awesome but I think most parents would prefer economical after spending $$$ to attend an entire season of show choir.
Besides, schools can easily provide the other "extra" facilities, such as homerooms, food, and the like, more readily than can professional venues. Professional theaters are made more for single performances and not the type of all-day-long events that show choir contests are.
Besides that ISSMA for marching band is held at the Lucas Oil Stadium, which I think would be an awesome experience for any high school performer.
But "State" for show choir is just at another high school now, so it's not like it's exciting to perform there, so if you don't place well it's just another disappointment at the end of the season. Maybe if it was in Clowes Hall or something then it would be worth it.
Others may remember, but I think "State" was at Clowes the first two years (at least one) and each session cost $25+ (this could run into $100s of dollars for a family attending both sessions). It was then moved to Ball State for a year or two. I seem to remember the cost was about the same. Part of the high cost was due to the requirement to use the theater provided professional stage crews and sound people. The sets were keep what seems like miles away from the stage and I think had to be moved via elevator to the stage. The final year at Ball State the sound provided by the theater staff was one of the worst of any contests I have ever attended, unacceptable for "state" in my opinion. The next year they moved it to a high school (LC as I recall), the admission cost was half (much more affordable for a family) and the contest logistics and sound were much better.
It is an "awesome experience" to perform at a major venue but it significantly increases the ticket price, an issue in these economic times. So it is a choice between awesome and economical. I'm sure the students want awesome but I think most parents would prefer economical after spending $$$ to attend an entire season of show choir.
I do agree though that whoever wins can't say they "won" state. Seeing as how a lot of the best groups won't be attending. haha.
How does ISSMA for band and all that work? I'm pretty sure every school competes. Why doesn't it work that way with show choir?
We will never have a true National champion either because there so many top choirs that will not/can not participate in the system FAME is attempting to put together but I bet whoever wins will still call themselves the "National Champion".
I don't know much about marching band. I think band contests have a much longer history than show choir, both in Indiana and Nationally. Also, band has national organization(s) that conduct contests. I have to believe that some of the issues we see now in show choir existed for band contests (rules, scoring, judging, etc.) at one time before they grew to what they are today. However, I imagine there is still a perception of judging bias. (I don't think you can ever completely get rid of the human factor in judging. Look at judging in the Olympics). I personally don't remember bands having major contests in Indiana during the 60's and 70's. I remember all the best bands competed at the Indiana State Fair, performing their routines on the track. It now appears many/most of the best bands have transitioned to field marching from track marching. I wonder if this was a regional difference and the national organizations had something to do with this shift.
I hope that as the number of show choir continues to grow (although it appears a bit slower than bands) we will see some of these controversial issues resolve themselves.
Based on everything that I've heard some choir directors say about why they dislike ISSMA, its because it tries too hard to limit what choirs can do, both with rules and with how some view the scoresheet as being slanted towards certain styles. It doesn't help that many directors have tried to suggest improvements to the ISSMA system for show choir, but it has remained mostly unwilling to adapt what it does.
So many more bands that they have 3 or 4 different divisions, right?
Besides that ISSMA for marching band is held at the Lucas Oil Stadium, which I think would be an awesome experience for any high school performer.
But "State" for show choir is just at another high school now, so it's not like it's exciting to perform there, so if you don't place well it's just another disappointment at the end of the season. Maybe if it was in Clowes Hall or something then it would be worth it.
It seems this season there haven't been any really great match ups at competitions, and state is no exception. NC will take grand champion, according to previous results this season.
Actually, the great thing about this year, is that there hasn't been just one crazy good group. Every group seems to be pretty close this year. They've all beaten each other. Anything can happen at state. I can see 3 or 4 choirs who could win.
It seems this season there haven't been any really great match ups at competitions, and state is no exception. NC will take grand champion, according to previous results this season.
You never know. We all know how crazy placements can be sometimes. haha.
So far this year, Northrop has beaten Huntington North taking best vocals and visuals.
Moral of this story is, anything can happen in the world of show choir!
True, but also at Norwell Huntington North won and I think Northrop got 4th? Correct me if I'm wrong. But what you said last is right. Anything can happen any given week.
I do agree though that whoever wins can't say they "won" state. Seeing as how a lot of the best groups won't be attending. haha.
How does ISSMA for band and all that work? I'm pretty sure every school competes. Why doesn't it work that way with show choir?
Many, many more bands attend ISSMA for band.
Based on everything that I've heard some choir directors say about why they dislike ISSMA, its because it tries too hard to limit what choirs can do, both with rules and with how some view the scoresheet as being slanted towards certain styles. It doesn't help that many directors have tried to suggest improvements to the ISSMA system for show choir, but it has remained mostly unwilling to adapt what it does.
Oh well point of the matter is its just another comp everyone gets to go to! exp. for the groups that had their season end, they get to go and preform again! :D
No, it's definitely a terrible lineup... lol Some good choirs, but considering this is "Indiana State Competition" It's a total joke.
No Carmel, FC, HN, Zionsville, CG, or LC
Complete disappointment. I guess North Central will be winning state again lol.
You never know. We all know how crazy placements can be sometimes. haha.
So far this year, Northrop has beaten Huntington North taking best vocals and visuals. Ben Davis has beat Center Grove. Warren Central has gotten best vocals over Center Grove. Several groups attending have awesome vocals. ISSMA score sheets favor vocal scores.
Moral of this story is, anything can happen in the world of show choir!
Man, I've seen better lineups on Saturdays in January.
This can't keep going on much longer. They were complaining of money problems before now. With the low number of entries they've had the past two years, that can't be getting any better.
Indiana State Large School Finals 2011
