FC Singers, I hope you are all ok and didn't hurt yourselves. When the 1st Runner Up was named tonight, rather than let the group get any applause, you literally stormed the balcony door screaming at the top of your lungs, jumping over seats, running into people. It was quite the sight. You know I have always admired the groups that have enough class to let that 1st Runner up enjoy their brief moment.
I just registered, for the sole purpose to state what has been stated above. I have used my real name, I probably won't post much, and I am not afraid of stating this opinion. I am a supporter of Center Grove.....I don't agree with the outcome of the judges decisions, but I'm not a pro at the judging thing...I believe it is an opinion thing....a different set of judges might have voted a different way....so who is to say who is really the "best"....it really is only the best for one evening, now isn't it...? Like all politics...who is asking who, to do what favor for who, for ths sake of the vote. But....that is politics.
Like it or not....it is what it is... the main thing is.................
Center Grove....you have CLASS. You may not have won the opinion of the judging panel last night but you sure held your heads high and you set an example that a couple other schools should learn to follow.
The students from Warren Central sitting in the balcony had to be asked by a "security" person to be quiet and respectful during Center Groves performance.......
Franklin Central....the announcement made just a moment before said " Please show respect to the 1st place runner up and give them THEIR time...as you would want if it were you....
You have taken home the 1st place trophy, but the behavior and example set by such disrespectful behavior in the balcony when they announced 1st Runner Up....was an example of your true colors and spirit in the competition.
No matter how young you are...and how excited you might have been at winning...you had just been asked, and reminded of how important it is to be respectful.....and you didn't hear a word of it.
Maybe the judges should take points off for lack of Class...and give points for real Class...
If that were the case there is no doubt that the example set by Center Grove would have put them where they belonged in the first place......AT THE TOP.
Everyone should be held to the same judging criteria...because Center Grove has taken award after award, after award, year after year...they are held to a higher judging standard than the others... It is still suppose to be about the experience and what you learn from it..and it is obvious some are expected to perform without any error, while others can make errors and still win...
I could not have been more proud than to see Center Grove actually walk away with the top award of the night.....CLASS and DIGNITY and that starts with the Directors and what they teach the performers...GREAT JOB, .... continue to know YOU ARE THE BEST IN SHOW...in every way. !!!
It's just my opinion......like the Judges...we are all entitled to one.
The 60/40 split's well & good, but don't you just love the fact that CG lost by an overall total of 0.4!!! I'm sorry but I highly doubt there's a justifiable reason for putting a group 4/10ths of a point behind another...and I can't wait for all the argumentative replies I'm bound to receive! " border="0" alt="yeahrite.gif" />
There seems to be some confusion about the scoring that I believe that I can clear up. It is not a 60/40 split with Tech. and artistry... it is a split of 60/40 with 60 going to vocal (both tech. and artistry) and 40 going to choreography (both tech. and artistry). With that being said once you take the total score of both of the vocal judges (a total possiblity of 400) it is weighted to be 60% of the total score, hence the decimals. Then you have the 400 possible points for choreography, which is then weighted 40% of the total score - also resulting in decimals. So even when groups are close, which I am sure was the case at Pike - it is possible for there to be less then one point seperating groups. If you look at the actual judges sheets I think you would find that they did not seperate them by decimals as their numbers are whole numbers only - it is the weighting that causes the decimlas.
I hope that helped - although as I read this I see that this would probaby be confusing to someone who does not know the sheets...SORRY!
I just felt the need to point this out to eveyone. Perhaps everyone should take a look at ALL of "classylassie" previous post, he(she) obovisouly has a grudge for Franklin Central going way back to when they beat CG at Hunnington North in March of 2005.
After reading all of his post.....classy? I think NOT!
No grudge..Infact, I never said FC didn't deserve to win. I merely commented on their behavior. Perhaps I have commented on that before? If so, they are still repeating the same miserable behavior, which makes me consistent. I do like CG ...never have apologized for it, they are amazing. I actually think FC does a nice job with their show this year.
I just felt the need to point this out to eveyone. Perhaps everyone should take a look at ALL of "classylassie" previous post, he(she) obovisouly has a grudge for Franklin Central going way back to when they beat CG at Hunnington North in March of 2005.
After reading all of his post.....classy? I think NOT!
I also watched the FC group trample evryone and everything in site and screeching when the first syllable of Cen came out ... Trust me, it was more than 1/3 of the group. Many groups have been behind in a day show and come out winning at night and still have the decency to let the 1st Runner up get their applause. And, to your point that the FC Singers is an emotional average 15.5 years old...GIVE ME A BREAK! This is high school. All groups are an emotional 15.5 years old. Some groups just are taught good manners. So, GodBless, Damon, maybe you should work on that this next week.
Warren Central..you were very very good. I thought Vocals should have gone to you or Center Grove.
CG ...love your show. It's different every year, challenging and truly the most entertaining show ever out there. Most unappreciated, unfortunately. But there are those of us that show up just to see what magic you have created year after year.
I'm happy to report that all FC Singers, crew, and band that were seated in the balcony made it safely to the stage (after descending the mammoth 5-landing staircase and worming through an entire bottom floor's worth of downflow crowd rushing out to beat traffic) momentarily after their name was called for their placing. I'm sorry to say, though, that they did lose 2 crew members seated on the floor level in a Debtones trampling. So brave. (Haha, just playin'...Great Job Debs, congrats on your Grand Championship! And also...FC is SO PROUD of their HIGH VOLTAGE LADIES!)
In fact, about a quarter of the group remained...standing or walking back to the door, and, naturally, giving Soundsystem the standing ovation they deserved. Considering the facts that •coming out of prelims FC Singers were in a disappointing 3rd (rising above personal challenges and taking GC), •by the time they reached the stage their name had already been announced complete with some dead mic time afterward, •and that the average age of an FC singer is an Emotional 15.5 years of age...I think that quarter of the group who kept their cool is a pretty reasonable ratio. FC held no bearing on the preceding group "getting their applause," Center Grove is a storied program with an extreme amount of talent and prestige synonymous with their very name. The amount of relief of any group surpassing them for a night should be nothing but a positive addition to the hardware they take home...and I think that pretty much sums up what occurred last night.
Great job to all groups that competed yesterday at Pike. It was a very, very tight finals race, and everyone should be proud of their performances.
I have a problem with this 60/40 split with the isma scoring.
Lets take a look at how the isma scoring is working:
Lawrence Central: Center Grove-BV, North Central-BC: Grand Champ.- NC-Best Visual ISMA
North Central: Plainfield-BV, Franklin Central-BC: Grand Champ.-FC-Best Visual-ISMA
Franklin Central: Highland-BV, Fairfield-BC: Grand Champ.-Fairfield-Best Visual-ISMA
Pike: Franklin Central-BV, Center Grove-BC: Grand Champ.-CG-Best Visual-OH NO WAIT-1st runner up! FC wins with BV-Why? ISMA? THE 60/40 RULE!
This post makes an interesting and intelligent point, but forgets part of the equation. The major determining factor in most (but certainly not all) competitions, whether they use an ISSMA sheet or not boils down to MARGINS. For instance, group A wins vocals by 2 points, yet group B wins choreography by 12 points. Even with the 60/40 ISSMA split, the group that won visuals will probably win the contest based on point margins converted into percentages, even though they came in 2nd in vocals.
I've worked with groups that have lost choreography,won vocals, and yet LOST a competition. I've had groups win choreography, lose vocals, and yet WIN a competition. This is why the eternal argument exists of whether scoring should be done by:
-Strict points
-Strict rankings
-Points converted to rankings
-Majority rule of the panel
-Olympic scoring (tossing out the high and the low score)
I don't know that there's a perfect solution, but I know people keep trying to refine and improve the system each year.
To the FC people, you won a hard-fought victory last night over one of the most amazing programs in the nation, Center Grove. I have NOTHING but respect and admiration for the job that Chris Pratt, Jennifer Dice and Andy Haines do year after year. They're incredibly talented professionals, and their groups are representative of their wonderful skills as educators and artists. It certainly could've gone either way and been a legitimate decision by the panel. There were also a number of other groups there (WC, Brownsburg, Zionsville, Carroll, LN) that are terriffic programs with rich history and tradition.
Celebrate your win, and do not respond to any criticism you read. People are more than entitled to feel as they do and make those feelings known. However, do not apologize for a wonderful victory you earned in a fierce competition. Keep your eye on the ball for next week against what will be the strongest ever ISSMA field (simply because more groups have applied than ever before). I'm proud of you, your championships and captions this year, and how far each of you have come as performers.
God Bless, Damon Brown
QUOTE(show choir x singer @ Mar 9 2008, 08:46 AM) 426535
Wow, fc your amazing your vocals are amazing. I mean I guess i didn't see you dance the show or something, I guess thats what have read in others post, I guess you just stood there the whole time not moving or nething....idk I guess people just get mad at you for what the judges who all I guess know what they are doing or something like that (I hope you all u smart people know I'm teasing.) But congrts fc and of course cg you were both amazing its been along time since fc has come close to beating you guys it was a close race.
One more comment vocals count for 60% while "artistry" is only 40% there you have your GC it takes a lot for a group to move up so drastically the judges must really have been certain who should have won.
I have a problem with this 60/40 split with the isma scoring.
Lets take a look at how the isma scoring is working:
Lawrence Central: Center Grove-BV, North Central-BC: Grand Champ.- NC-Best Visual ISMA
North Central: Plainfield-BV, Franklin Central-BC: Grand Champ.-FC-Best Visual-ISMA
Franklin Central: Highland-BV, Fairfield-BC: Grand Champ.-Fairfield-Best Visual-ISMA
Pike: Franklin Central-BV, Center Grove-BC: Grand Champ.-CG-Best Visual-OH NO WAIT-1st runner up! FC wins with BV-Why? ISMA? THE 60/40 RULE!
This is a complete sham! I am beginning to think the schools that are not part of ISMA is getting shafted?
Is there a conspiracy against schools that are not part of this so called God's gift to scoring in show choir?
I think it is time to say enough is enough. Why is it soooooooooooooo important to make show choir part of this ISMA?
Is it money, politics, power or what? Oh that's right-there's no politics is show choir.
New judges are added at night, so it is not necessarily groups "moving up" rather than just incorporating more score sheets into the total. And of course vocals are 60 and artistry is 40, but that didn't stop the judges from handing Plainfield Belles et Beaux 1RU at North Central last week, Lawrence Central Sweet Sensations 1RU at North Central last week, and Center Grove Sound System 1RU at Lawrence Central two weeks ago. There have been many more, those are just the last two weeks in central Indiana.
Wow, fc your amazing your vocals are amazing. I mean I guess i didn't see you dance the show or something, I guess thats what have read in others post, I guess you just stood there the whole time not moving or nething....idk I guess people just get mad at you for what the judges who all I guess know what they are doing or something like that (I hope you all u smart people know I'm teasing.) But congrts fc and of course cg you were both amazing its been along time since fc has come close to beating you guys it was a close race.
One more comment vocals count for 60% while "artistry" is only 40% there you have your GC it takes a lot for a group to move up so drastically the judges must really have been certain who should have won.
FC Singers, I hope you are all ok and didn't hurt yourselves. When the 1st Runner Up was named tonight, rather than let the group get any applause, you literally stormed the balcony door screaming at the top of your lungs, jumping over seats, running into people. It was quite the sight. You know I have always admired the groups that have enough class to let that 1st Runner up enjoy their brief moment.
I certainly hope this didn't surprise you, classielassie. They do it every time. I am not entirely sure how a "dance break" that involves no dancing can score well all season in a category entitled "Artistry," but their vocals I suppose are undeniably strong. I just do not understand the whole theme and design of their comedy number.
LN, you had a very strong showing last week at North Central's competition, and from what I saw when I was there, you certainly deserved a finals slot this weekend. Everybody gets a bad draw sometimes - Lawrence Central got it last week, and you got it this week. Best wishes for the rest of your season!
CG, everything about your show just blows me away. I suppose I don't have anything else to say except that, to me, there is no comparison to the technique and classiness with which you perform your show. There is simply no one else out there than even attempts to do what you do choreographically and in terms of show design. Having seen your show several times this year, I find myself wishing you could've come away the GC.
Warren, I've been so glad to see you doing better and better in placements as the season goes on - I love your show, I adore your ballad, and your red-headed soloist in King of the World (who I believe had a solo in When Will God Save the People last year) is PHENOMENAL. What tremendous amounts of talent you have that group. Keep it up!
FC Singers, I hope you are all ok and didn't hurt yourselves. When the 1st Runner Up was named tonight, rather than let the group get any applause, you literally stormed the balcony door screaming at the top of your lungs, jumping over seats, running into people. It was quite the sight. You know I have always admired the groups that have enough class to let that 1st Runner up enjoy their brief moment.
I'm happy to report that all FC Singers, crew, and band that were seated in the balcony made it safely to the stage (after descending the mammoth 5-landing staircase and worming through an entire bottom floor's worth of downflow crowd rushing out to beat traffic) momentarily after their name was called for their placing. I'm sorry to say, though, that they did lose 2 crew members seated on the floor level in a Debtones trampling. So brave. (Haha, just playin'...Great Job Debs, congrats on your Grand Championship! And also...FC is SO PROUD of their HIGH VOLTAGE LADIES!)
In fact, about a quarter of the group remained...standing or walking back to the door, and, naturally, giving Soundsystem the standing ovation they deserved. Considering the facts that •coming out of prelims FC Singers were in a disappointing 3rd (rising above personal challenges and taking GC), •by the time they reached the stage their name had already been announced complete with some dead mic time afterward, •and that the average age of an FC singer is an Emotional 15.5 years of age...I think that quarter of the group who kept their cool is a pretty reasonable ratio. FC held no bearing on the preceding group "getting their applause," Center Grove is a storied program with an extreme amount of talent and prestige synonymous with their very name. The amount of relief of any group surpassing them for a night should be nothing but a positive addition to the hardware they take home...and I think that pretty much sums up what occurred last night.
Great job to all groups that competed yesterday at Pike. It was a very, very tight finals race, and everyone should be proud of their performances.
FC Singers, I hope you are all ok and didn't hurt yourselves. When the 1st Runner Up was named tonight, rather than let the group get any applause, you literally stormed the balcony door screaming at the top of your lungs, jumping over seats, running into people. It was quite the sight. You know I have always admired the groups that have enough class to let that 1st Runner up enjoy their brief moment.
FC FC FC FC FC!!!!!!!!! What an amazing comeback after being 3rd in prelims!!!! Your year has been an incredible story, and I'm so proud to have been a part of it. The Grandmamma of ISSMA awaits next weekend, and I know you'll be totally geared up to give it everything you have. I'm unbelievably proud of your work ethic, your determination, and your accomplishments winning 4 Grand Championships so far this season!!! Enjoy it til Monday, then back to the grindstone!
Carroll, totally a near miss for you guys! Sounds like the show went very well, but it was just a loaded competition with a lot of great competitors. Having 2 of the judges place you third in prelims should make you feel great, and now it's just the ISSMA waiting game! I'll have my fingers crossed tomorrow afternoon! God Bless, Damon
K...so I dont remember much...other than FC SINGERS TAKING HOME THE GRAND CHAMPIONSHIP TROPHY!!!! and best vocals. Center Grove 1st RU and best Visuals. Great show CG. It was so close. Dont remember anything else. Cakes gonna taste gooood
Pike MusicFest 2008
I just registered, for the sole purpose to state what has been stated above. I have used my real name, I probably won't post much, and I am not afraid of stating this opinion. I am a supporter of Center Grove.....I don't agree with the outcome of the judges decisions, but I'm not a pro at the judging thing...I believe it is an opinion thing....a different set of judges might have voted a different way....so who is to say who is really the "best"....it really is only the best for one evening, now isn't it...? Like all politics...who is asking who, to do what favor for who, for ths sake of the vote. But....that is politics.
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