Much appreciated! No worries, and Scott, I think that's a fair way of describing how some contests and groups go about things. The best panels, in my opinion, are ones that select folks that DON'T share philosophies, but all have philosophies that are valid, educational, and open-minded to accepting things out of their normal comfort zone.
Sometimes I'll see shows that I genuinely don't care for from a selection, costuming or programming standpoint. However, if the group sings well, dances well, keeps it tasteful and "scores the sheet" really great, then it's my job as a judge to recognize and award that accordingly. The contest deserves it, the director deserves it, and the KIDS deserve it.
As one of the judges, let me explain to you why your "determined in advance" comment is totally off-base.
Dear Damon (with whom I share friendships with 6 close friends on Facebook, but whom I have yet to personally meet),
My apologies. As soon as I wrote the term "in advance," I knew it would be misconstrued, but struggled to find an appropriate equivalent term.
If you saw a spreadsheet after the event, you'd see that NOT ONE of the five judges had the same rankings! Each of us has judged over 150 competitions, and each of us has a particular outlook that is completely and totally unaffected by what other judges think. This being a point I attempted (poorly it seems) to defend, not condemn.
we were all looking in astonishment at the spreadsheet at how diverse our opinions were. Again, an excellent point that my post fully and completely supported and understood. I saw the strengths that each of you saw and did not wonder at all that there was such "caption scatter," as it were.
The contest could've gone a number of ways and still been a fair, defensible, just outcome. Yet again, my post simply attempted to explain this as best I understood it. I'd like to believe that I could have defended just about any champion that night.
The talent last night was staggering, and the tremendous musicianship, heart and passion shown by each and every group should be applauded and admired. In addition, the impossible demands placed upon the judges in the face of such talent and musicianship is, by me at least, tremendously admired and appreciated.
I'd best apologize for my inarticulately expressed sentiment and shut up. Thank you, Damon, and all judges, for your continued outstanding work.
"Predetermined" as in a judge knows he will only vote for Choir X regardless of their performance? or judges caucusing before hand as to who they will all vote for? No, that doesn't happen.
However, knowing the backgrounds of a panel, as well as how those judges have scored earlier competitions, (quite easy to see patterns when the same judges are used over and over again) - the results of a given contest can be fairly accurately guessed before the contest takes place. So if a contest director wants to make a statement, wants results to come out a certain way, he knows whom to hire. And in the same vain, if a choir director wants to be confident of a win, he knows which contests to enter and which to avoid by who is on the panel.
If a panel is indeed diverse - in taste and background - usually the "strong enough overall package" does win. And that actually seems quite fair to me.
The caption spread seems odd at first, but not so much if you saw the shows. This contest was probably determined "in advance," by which I do not cast any negative aspersion, but only mean the styles seemed so diverse as to dictate that the winner would be that group who mostly closely matched what was important to the judges and scoresheets that day.
If it had been about fantastic choreo ideas, clean tight work and a kick-butt band, Zion takes it. If the emphasis had been rich, tight, full voice vocals with delicate softs and power louds, LC wins. If it's about design, story, costumes, and spectacle, but with a strong enough overall package, Fairfield is the easy call.
I'm an LC parent, so I'd have liked to see Central Sound win, but this is the first third place finish I have absolutely no problem with. And I agree that Troy was so solid in everything, without any particular starring piece, that a first runner-up with no captions makes some sense.
I think Edgewood remains an important contest (Happy 20th!) and hope it keeps drawing the wide range of show choirs it does. Excellent contest!
As one of the judges, let me explain to you why your "determined in advance" comment is totally off-base. If you saw a spreadsheet after the event, you'd see that NOT ONE of the five judges had the same rankings! Each of us has judged over 150 competitions, and each of us has a particular outlook that is completely and totally unaffected by what other judges think. Each of us has more than 2 decades of experience, and value greatly our integrity in being fair, open-minded, and never "pre-determining" an outcome. We respect each other's opinion, but are not swayed by it. After the contest, as we went to say hello to Verda, we were all looking in astonishment at the spreadsheet at how diverse our opinions were. There were groups that one judge had in first that another had in third or fourth. This has nothing to do with anybody's qualifications, but rather is a testimony to how wonderful each of the groups were and how close they were in both talent and execution. This is WHY you try to have a qualified panel, because if you put a number of people with diverse background and experience together, their opinions and scores normally will balance out to determine a deserving set of placements.
The contest could've gone a number of ways and still been a fair, defensible, just outcome. The Edgewood folks and Verda have too much integrity to run it any other way. The talent last night was staggering, and the tremendous musicianship, heart and passion shown by each and every group should be applauded and admired.
The caption spread seems odd at first, but not so much if you saw the shows. This contest was probably determined "in advance," by which I do not cast any negative aspersion, but only mean the styles seemed so diverse as to dictate that the winner would be that group who mostly closely matched what was important to the judges and scoresheets that day.
If it had been about fantastic choreo ideas, clean tight work and a kick-butt band, Zion takes it. If the emphasis had been rich, tight, full voice vocals with delicate softs and power louds, LC wins. If it's about design, story, costumes, and spectacle, but with a strong enough overall package, Fairfield is the easy call.
I'm an LC parent, so I'd have liked to see Central Sound win, but this is the first third place finish I have absolutely no problem with. And I agree that Troy was so solid in everything, without any particular starring piece, that a first runner-up with no captions makes some sense.
I think Edgewood remains an important contest (Happy 20th!) and hope it keeps drawing the wide range of show choirs it does. Excellent contest!
Pretty sure Fairfield won in the ladies with Lawrence Central 1st runner-up. Also, Southwestern won in the varsity division.
Many thanks to the Edgewood folks for being tremendous hosts to the judges and running a really great competition. Lastly, the highlight of the entire day BY A MILE was the first public appearance by Verda Savage since her accident!!! She looked healthy, alive, strong, and beautiful!! She still is coming back physically, but her progress was/is nothing short of a complete miracle. Probably 1,000 folks in the auditorium when she walked onstage, and wouldn't be surprised to find out 500 of us were in tears. The cherry on top of a wonderful day! God Bless, Damon Brown
Well thank you for the information! It is much appreciated. congrats to everyone that performed tonight. This has always been one of my favorite competitions
Final Placements:
GC: Fairfield (Show Design, Stage Crew)
1RU: Troy
2RU: Lawrence Central (Best Vocals)
3RU: Mt. Zion (Best Choreo, Best Band)
4RU: Sullivan
Soloist Competition:
1st-Zachary Harris--Sullivan
2nd- Morgan-Fairfield
3rd- Kelsie Keller-Mt. Zion
Fairfield was beat by MtZ at Indy, but MtZ was not at Fame Chicago last year.
Right you are, Shane. I got caught up in that short novel I was writing thanks for the correction!
I am looking forward to the competition as I think it is more competitive than it has been in recent years, probably dating back to 2008 when the top 4 placings were: Sullivan, Fairfield, Mt. Zion and Troy, respectively. LC into the mix will make the top three spots very competitive and I am really excited to see how it plays out. My only wish was that there was both a day show and finals, but nevertheless it should be good.
In terms of my predictions, I definitely agree with what has been previously posted. I think Mt. Zion will take Best Choreography seeing as they have competed against some real tough powerhouses this year and still have been able to win the award. I don't see Edgewood being any different.
In terms of vocals, I am caught between Fairfield and LC. Generally, LC has very sound vocals, and I would be more confident in them had they competed against tougher choirs. But seeing as this is there last competition, I think they will edge Fairfield out in vocals.
Fairfield was beat by MtZ at Indy, but MtZ was not at Fame Chicago last year.
This looks about right. I think those three are the clear top three, then a small gap, Troy, bigger gap, Sullivan. It's hard to predict a winner among FF, MtZ, and LC seeing as they all have a combined 5 grand championships so far this season (or more if results haven't been updated). MtZ has had an intensely difficult competition season by going up against very strong groups every competition. LC, comparatively, hasn't seemed to have as stiff of competition - as I recall, the strongest group they've gone against so far has been Findlay First Edition who they placed second to. If LC had attended ISSMA (which I don't blame them for skipping) I might be more comfortable predicting where Central Sound would end up. Fairfield has had a quiet season in my opinion although defeated North Central this season which is a great feat since the Counterpoints won ISSMA. FF is having a very good season from what I'm hearing, but it doesn't really appear that they've "gone out there and proven it" yet. Recent competitions: FF was bested by MtZ twice last year at FAME Chicago and Indy. Not sure about LC.
Anyways, I think I'd give the Best Band caption to Fairfield and Best Choreography caption to Mt. Zion. I'd be pretty surprised if MtZ doesn't get Best Choreo after earning it at the WWS bloodbath a few weeks ago and then I'd just FF Best Band, because it's typically pretty good (and won Best Combo at Fame Indy last year). Nevertheless, it'll come down to Vocals...as it should. FF should be solid, I think LC is usually solid, and we'll see about MtZ. I'm excited, this is going to be a great competition!
Random Prediction:
GC: Fairfield
1RU: Mt. Zion
2RU: Lawrence Central
3RU: Troy
4RU: Sullivan
This looks about right. I think those three are the clear top three, then a small gap, Troy, bigger gap, Sullivan. It's hard to predict a winner among FF, MtZ, and LC seeing as they all have a combined 5 grand championships so far this season (or more if results haven't been updated). MtZ has had an intensely difficult competition season by going up against very strong groups every competition. LC, comparatively, hasn't seemed to have as stiff of competition - as I recall, the strongest group they've gone against so far has been Findlay First Edition who they placed second to. If LC had attended ISSMA (which I don't blame them for skipping) I might be more comfortable predicting where Central Sound would end up. Fairfield has had a quiet season in my opinion although defeated North Central this season which is a great feat since the Counterpoints won ISSMA. FF is having a very good season from what I'm hearing, but it doesn't really appear that they've "gone out there and proven it" yet. Recent competitions: FF was bested by MtZ last year at FAME Indy. Not sure about LC.
Anyways, I think I'd give the Best Band caption to Fairfield and Best Choreography caption to Mt. Zion. I'd be pretty surprised if MtZ doesn't get Best Choreo after earning it at the WWS bloodbath a few weeks ago and then I'd just FF Best Band, because it's typically pretty good (and won Best Combo at Fame Indy last year). Nevertheless, it'll come down to Vocals...as it should. FF should be solid, I think LC is usually solid, and we'll see about MtZ. I'm excited, this is going to be a great competition!
(edited to make the correction 09davis pointed out)
Edgewood Contest of Champions 2012
thanks for the correction!
