Well I think everyone can agree that this had it's ups and downs (probably more downs, but still). All the choirs who performed were fantastic. Any volunteers, judges, directors, and student who were there deserve a HUGE thank you. The competition was fierce and definitely one to watch.
I won't go on and on about the negatives, because it looks like most people already have. Although with everything that went wrong, I can almost guarantee that most choirs won't want to come back. The disorganization was just unbelievable. But I guess that will make everyone appreciate the organized competitions.
Lastly, congrats to Los Al and Bonita Vista, for GCs. And to everyone who made finals. I know Indiana had great representaion :D
WAS there for those who are concerned. Also, this is a NATIONAL competition, whether it is the first year or an annual thing it should be held to a higher standard. Of course mistakes will happen, but so much went wrong and as others have mentioned it wasn't as advertised. I personally tried to make the best of the situation as I hope everyone tried to do from the beginning.
So far the only thing anyone would question with what I said above is whether a National Competition should be held to a higher standard than a local invitational. In a national competition you will obviously have groups from all over the US. Along with these groups come different styles and preferences of show design/vocals/choreo. The judges are having to judge each category in attempt to determine which group has better vocals and etc. It is obviously harder to judge at a national competition due to the huge differences. Having fewer judges, like what happened, can leave more room for inconsistant judge results. That is the same with any competition no matter where you go, and I always go in thinking the judges are well respected. I am NOT saying that the results were flawed...I knew someone would ask. My point is simply the more judges there are the less chance for crazy random judge scores that are completely opposite from another judge.
Another point I have is the time a group gets on stage and the idle time between groups. It was obvious that the competition will run late, just a matter of how late. Then, limited space for each group to change and store equipment. Also, having the transit routes go straight by where people are trying to change and get ready and having them move for the group coming through. I know there is a lack of space... yet there was room to go around (didn't help that lady leading groups was bossy and rude in other situations as well). I am glad however that every group did not have to use a house drum set due to the lack of equipment space...that ALMOST happened...funny that that set included several different brand drum heads. There was a lack of communication to those on the staff in form of not knowing when to enter the performance area. Inexperience usually results in those type of problems. My overall experience of this competition is a 1 star out of 5 which is by far the worst this competition season. Again this is my experience of the logistics and with whatever hit the fan.
And yes, I participated mostly due to it being in Radio City. Everyone I know never heard of the Hammer. It was not at all what I signed up for, but at least I got my exercise going up all those steps.
Just curious, but when did the snack bar show up? I noticed that by the time they got it set up most the groups were done. Perhaps I just didn't see it before?
This was simply what I experienced and I felt bad for all those who paid soooo much money for something that was completely different.
I did however enjoy all the groups and the talent that was there. The company you are with truly helps in any situation. I do hope in the future that many of the problems others have said and what I have mentioned could be resolved. I am hoping in 10 years I'll just laugh about all of this.
I did see the post about the staff putting their lives and other jobs on hold. I do appreciate them for doing so, but I am also curious as to who is accountable.
Thanks for the info, I'll fix that above. I'm not sure sharing girls is very fair, though.
i can understand why you would think this isn't fair. but it definitely does have disadvantages as well. the girls in both groups work twice as hard because we have a whole other show to learn. we are normally twice as tired at the end of a comp day. also some of us get the our shows mixed up at times. we do this because we have such a small school. total in both choirs we have 34 students which is less than the average one choir. in both choirs individually there is 20 and 25, which is a lot less than the average group. but i can understand where you're cominig from too.
Does anyone know how we can locate a police report to substantiate Antwon's claims of embezzlement? As someone else posted, the issues experienced by many of the choirs screams lawsuit. We did NOT receive what we paid for ... that is the bottom line.
What does any of that have to do with Finale? If you have a problem with the way Antwon treats your group then take that up with your choir. But to publicly bash him in a Finale forum for something that wasn't even his fault is unarguably inexcusable...
I think the point the previous person was trying to make was that you claimed people are portraying antwon as a crook and not a good person but the medina person is saying that they in fact have seen antwon in an unappealing light so maybe its not a crazy notion that they would blame this on antwon from his past behavior towards them.
For reasons out of our control, we have had to change the venue from Radio City Music Hall to the Hammerstein Theatre in the Manhattan Center. Cirque is putting on a large engagement for the next five years that has displaced many organizations and events last minute, such as the NFL Draft, The Tony Awards, NYU Graduations and many other concerts including Finale.
The Hammerstein is a converted opera house, and seats up to 3600 people. It was the best choice to ensure that the kids all have a great performing experience in NYC. We have added Mario Lopez as our celebrity host, and we have increased the cash prizes to over $55,000. This coupled with our one of a kind workshops where students will dance with the choreographer for Beyonce, take acting classes from someone who has had roles in Law & Order, Combo players will play with a world renowned artist, ensures that all the students involved will have a wonderful ONE OF A KIND experience. Finale will truly be something the show choir world has never seen or experienced before.
The opulence and grandiose announcements always had me worried right from the beginning. It was like a bad omen. The Titanic was the greatest ocean liner there ever was in its time... deemed unsinkable. We all know the end to that story. As for Finale- it was being pitched as the future of show choir competitions... the best of the best... no one could touch its awesomeness with all of the clinics, prize money, venue, adjudication, trophies, hot night-club-esque teen dance parties, Broadway shows, and of course AC Slater. ICEBERG, dead ahead!
Schools need to be refunded. Finale needs to make their wrongs right.
I was surprised to not see any names on their website- until the names of the people in charge were posted on here, I was incredibly suspicious... maybe we're all too cynical, but when you're looking at a trip that could cost well over $20,000, you want to know who you're trusting your group with- and your money with!
Perhaps Finale is trying to brand themselves differently than SCN, but I have to admit, the "we're show choir people, too" pitch from Daryl Ussery and his team is one of my favorite things about Show Choir Nationals, and one of the reasons I think they've been so successful. Same reason I think some people appreciate FAME- having people like Chad Alexander on staff who get the ins and outs of what we do makes the entire process of planning a national competition trip much easier.
Rian, do you know if they've had any groups express initial interest in this competition for next season?
feel free to obnoxiously "thumbs down" this post to try to bury the opinion of anyone's but your own, but i just want to say what i have to say.
i think we all realize at this point that there were a lot of aspects of the competition that were promised that weren't delivered. but i think it's immature and extremely uncalledfor to try to portray antwon as a crook just because of happenings that were out of his control. clearly, as mentioned before, there was a significant embezzlement that took place between antwon and his administration, but since no one out side of antwon and his administration truly knows the scale of how much said partner financially exploited him, no one has any right to make any assumptions about antwon's character.
he very well could have canceled the entire competition and disappointed thousands of people. but then none of these kids would have gotten to see the most alive city in america. none of these choirs would've gotten to meet eachother and interact with some of the best choirs from all over the nation. personally, i thought it was a step in the right direction for a national competition, and clearly there's things that need to be ironed out, but im confident that they will be.
and bring on the dislikes...
Yeah, but atleast people would understand that he had to cancel due to lack of funds (embezzlement or not) and there would be less people upset. Now (excuse my language) **** hit the fan, because he decided to keep going, and thus causing virtually NO rooms being booked, and now kids who anticipated spending money on fifth avenue and Madison avenue, are now having to spend more money, or for the lucky ones, having their school board pay for it. Coming from someone who was promised a room and all the extras, and finding out what was going down when we did, (and now $800 in the hole) I find it very disappointing that Antwon and Mind's Eye Conceptions decided to go the route they did.
For the complaining about Mario Lopez I think some people have failed to think about a POTENTIAL reasoning for why he had to leave-
I'm sure when he was hired to be the emcee he was scheduled to do it for the ORIGINAL schedule. I'm sure being famous he has a busy schedule especially with other events. If he had slated to leave after he announced finals with the regular schedule then I am sure he stuck to the plans he had set previously.
I don't know what goes on in his life and what he has planned, but I am sure he had other commitments that were set and he had to follow thru with those too. It sucks he had to leave, but to try and hold that against him i think is just low and not needed.
Food for thought tho.
And I do find it sad that people are creating accounts to specifically bash on the competition. its okay to be upset, and have opinions on how things went, but its hard to take it seriously when you won't put your name on it.
say what you mean, and mean what you say and don't be afraid of saying it. Thats my opinion.
Let this be a lesson to anyone who puts their name on something. Mr. Chavis put his name on this thing and now must pay the consequences. Whether it is his fault or not he chose to take this on. Show Choir is a close knit society that doesn't easily forget stuff like this. (Just ask an "old timer" about Onalaska 2004.) Will Antwon be frowned upon in show choir for awhile? Yes. Is it his fault? Who knows? But when you put your name on something especially on something of this magnitude be prepared to face the consequences both good and bad.
PS my favorite color is red so I don't care if you give me a thumbs down.
I'm sorry you had a terrible time at this "joke of a competition" but I think you should understand just one thing about this event.
The reason that the competition actually did take place is because most of the staff put all of their energy into salvaging what they could before Saturday. I'm not talking about Antwon. I am talking about the people (such as Mike, Tiffany, Jason, Nancy, and Jared, to name a few) who put their lives on hold, took time off of their real jobs, and did everything in their power to give the kids a great weekend in New York. Did you know that they were volunteers? Or that they gave up their own Broadway show tickets and in some cases their own hotel rooms for the kids? They also paid for much of the event out of their own pockets so that they didn't have to cancel it. They worked so hard all week that they barely had time to eat or sleep. If they were lucky, they had time to squeeze in one or two meals and get four hours of sleep each night. If it wasn't for these people, there really would not have been an event at all.
I can see that this situation was frustrating for the schools. I understand that--I would be frustrated, too. But the production staff and technical crew did the absolute best that they could. You think this event was run "as poorly as possible" but I want to assure you that if the staff wasn't so talented at what they do or if they didn't care so much, then you really would have reason to complain. The only reason they didn't quit was because they care about the kids. These people are very kind and they had to give up a lot for the sake of the show. I just wish they would have been treated with the respect they deserve from the parents and directors.
WOW!
So everyone should feel better because you gave up your broadway ticket and hotel room for them? A show and hotel of which they already paid for and were expecting?
It is like saying "I'm Sorry! My Bad" will forgive all.
It is like saying to the kicker who missed the field goal that could have won the Super Bowl
"It's ok honey! At least you tried!"
I am sure many parents put their lives on hold to support their children and attend what was supposed to be a high class show choir competition.
I agree with Finale Thoughts. A director who actually experienced this first hand.
so i've muddled through all these pages and have a general idea of why people feel the way they do (good or bad). but where's the mea culpa from anyone associated directly with finale (as opposed to students trying to defend men twice their age)? the longer you folks let this thing simmer, the worse the rumor mill gets.
it does not make a difference in the real world whether or not you tried "really hard" but failed. results and the bottom line will always matter, no matter how good your intentions were.
if there is already a movement to reimburse funds and issue letters of profound apology, keep the remedies rolling. but someone needs to step forward yesterday because breach of contract comes in all shapes & sizes... and this one has class action lawsuit written all over it.
lesson learned: USE ESCROW ACCOUNTS WHEN EXORBITANT SUMS OF MONEY ARE INVOLVED.
The reason that the competition actually did take place is because most of the staff put all of their energy into salvaging what they could before Saturday. I'm not talking about Antwon. I am talking about the people (such as Mike, Tiffany, Jason, Nancy, and Jared, to name a few) who put their lives on hold, took time off of their real jobs, and did everything in their power to give the kids a great weekend in New York.
I met and dealt with Mike, Tiffany, Jaison, and Jared personally and every single one of them were utterly amazing people. I couldn't believe how hard they were working or how much they sacrificed so that this event could happen. I actually started feeling a kinship with these guys by the time I left, just because they had to overcome so much and were being so selfless about it. Unfortunately, being "behind the scenes people" (and with zero acknowledgement from Antwon) most people won't ever know about the commitment they (and many, many other people) made to pull this event off. It's just a sad reality of the circumstances, especially with everything that went on. I am happy, however, to personally vouch for each and every one of these people as they were truly amazing in my eyes.
That being said, I personally don't think many of the points brought up in the post you quoted were untruthful or out of line.
I am one of the directors who brought my groups to Finale. It needs to be made clear that any director who is considering doing Finale in the in the future DO NOT CONSIDER IT. Here is a list of things that were wrong with this joke of a competition:
1) Radio City was the advertised venue, this was changed without contacting directors! Most directors found out by rumor that turned into truth, some directors found out from other students in other groups.
2) We were originally given a Broadway show to go see. Our group was given different tickets to a completely different show! This happened the night we arrived. Were we notified of the change? NO! I had built up the advertised show and kids were very excited to see it but again this was changed about two hours before we were leaving for the show!
3) In the package THAT MY KIDS AND PARENTS PAID FOR we were to have a dinner at a popular NY restaraunt. We were notified that because of $ mismanagement/embezzelment in the company they did not have the funds to pay for our dinner, THE ONE WE PAID FOR. The major problem with this is I now know that one group got their dinner, who is their choreographer? Antwon/the CEO and founder of Finale! Yes this is true. AS AWFUL AS IT SOUNDS.
4) When we arrived at the hotel we got no welcome packet of any kind.
5) After competition I received no score sheets or score composite nor was I given any instructions on how to obtain them! We left with nothing in regards to scores.
6) There were supposed to be shuttles (provided by Finale) running from our hotel to the venue, whenever we asked about this we were never given a for sure answer by Finale. It was always "we are
working on that". THEY WERE PROMISED FROM day one when the venue got changed. This caused major issues because most of group buses were not to be used and staying in Jersey. This was a huge problem. We ended having to use our own bus as a shuttle for our group and are being rebilled by our bus company. More $ for us!
7) The workshops ended up being ok at best, there was no sign up sheet, no organization to it. The music for the hip hop class was being payed on a tiny mp3 stereo and you could barely hear the music. Over half the classes originally advertised DID NOT EVEN OCCUR.
8) The prize money promised....what do you think?
9) My parents who bought those expensive tickets to come watch were not even asked for their ticket at the door! Could have just walked right in!
Now lets see if Antwon and his company reimburse any of these schools for money that they paid. If he does he will regain some credibility and respect but as of now he has zero of that from me and I assume most directors there this weekend. He did do a nice job salvaging the event after the alleged $ theft. He could have cancelled the event and completely robbed us. For that, good job Antwon. But evrything else was run very poorly. Let me rephrase that, about as poorly as possible.
Again (attention all directors), DO NOT CONSIDER FINALE in the future. It is rollacoaster you do not want to ride. You other directors know this, when the company you are dealing with is unorgainized who does it come back to? YOU! Antwon put me in an awful position with all my students, chaperones, and parent that paid almost $700!
I'm sorry you had a terrible time at this "joke of a competition" but I think you should understand just one thing about this event.
The reason that the competition actually did take place is because most of the staff put all of their energy into salvaging what they could before Saturday. I'm not talking about Antwon. I am talking about the people (such as Mike, Tiffany, Jason, Nancy, and Jared, to name a few) who put their lives on hold, took time off of their real jobs, and did everything in their power to give the kids a great weekend in New York. Did you know that they were volunteers? Or that they gave up their own Broadway show tickets and in some cases their own hotel rooms for the kids? They also paid for much of the event out of their own pockets so that they didn't have to cancel it. They worked so hard all week that they barely had time to eat or sleep. If they were lucky, they had time to squeeze in one or two meals and get four hours of sleep each night. If it wasn't for these people, there really would not have been an event at all.
I can see that this situation was frustrating for the schools. I understand that--I would be frustrated, too. But the production staff and technical crew did the absolute best that they could. You think this event was run "as poorly as possible" but I want to assure you that if the staff wasn't so talented at what they do or if they didn't care so much, then you really would have reason to complain. The only reason they didn't quit was because they care about the kids. These people are very kind and they had to give up a lot for the sake of the show. I just wish they would have been treated with the respect they deserve from the parents and directors.
Finale Nationals 2011
