To defend myself, I did read that director's post. But that was from a few days prior, and this news was more recent.
Hence, I wanted to see if there had been some update or change to the situation that the BD director had not commented on, since his previous post.
Please don't give me attitude... I was merely trying to determine if this "updated" information was valid or rumor. I've read the majority of this discussion, but as no one had mentioned this rumor of a changed verdict and ISSMA getting involved, I simply wanted to see if there was new information.
I heard from people at NC that the DQ actually got overturned?? And that they got a qualifying spot for ISSMA despite being unable to compete in finals because ISSMA acknowledged the error?
And apparently it was an issue with the arranger telling the band to be quiet NOT a director, and the arranger was back stage the entire time (not in the audience), but someone got confused and thought it was a member of the NC directing team who entered the back stage area?
Can someone verify any of this?
If that's at all the case, MAJOR screw up on BD's part...
Just 6 scant posts above you, the post from BD's director was quoted explaining the whole thing. I understand not reading the entire discussion, but come on, at least look at the page you're posting on.
I heard from people at NC that the DQ actually got overturned?? And that they got a qualifying spot for ISSMA despite being unable to compete in finals because ISSMA acknowledged the error?
And apparently it was an issue with the arranger telling the band to be quiet NOT a director, and the arranger was back stage the entire time (not in the audience), but someone got confused and thought it was a member of the NC directing team who entered the back stage area?
Can someone verify any of this?
If that's at all the case, MAJOR screw up on BD's part...
They also broke Rule #3 "No one may leave the performance area once the show has begun"
But there is no stated punishment for that. I am just an advocate in not controlling too many aspects of a show and I feel that this is one of those things. I'm not knocking Ben Davis for this rule because MANY have it and many would have enforced it the same way. I just disagree.
the rule also says"....devices, including, but not limited to...'' meaning that NC broke the rule, the the fact that it was someone telling them directly is just a technicality. they still broke the rule by having someone from the spectator area communicate with them. NC has been very graceful about their penalty and I commend them for it!
Not to get off topic, but I feel like the other schools were totally ignored on this topic, so: I'm giving a huge CONGRATULATIONS to: Franklin Central, DeKalb, Pike, Bishop Luers, and Carroll, as well as the ladies groups from: North Central, DeKalb, Pike, and Franklin Central for their EXCELLENT shows in the finals last saturday!
Especially to DeKalb and Pike who had my favorite shows of the night by long shots!
That's a stretch... I mean a BIG stretch if that's the case. I see no violation based on that rule. A device is exactly that, a device. A mouth is not a device. I also feel a "lowest placement" penalty would have to be a 100% clear violation. I don't think it's clear at all. The wording and what NC did were two opposite things.
Heaven forbid somebody screams "Band you are too loud" during a performance.
They also broke Rule #3 "No one may leave the performance area once the show has begun"
Before I get started I would like to say for the record that the ISSMA offcials did not have anything to do with the ruling. It was my call (with the judges input). While I do not have my directors packet in front of me this is how the rules read...
Rules #3 "No one may leave the performance area once the show has begun"
Rule #10 "there is to be no communication from the audience to the performance area including but not limited to... text messaging, walkie talkies, conducting, etc..."
Penalties - lowest possible placement for breach of rule 3 and 10.
These are the current rules for the Giant Spectacular and about 95% of the other contest that I have been to in the past ten years. We have this rule in place because I am fully aware that not every school has the same resources and that not every school can not communicate in the same way from the audience to the stage. One might argue that texting would be an easy solution, but like most schools it is very difficult to get a signal anywhere in my school. This is a rule that my staff and I will be looking at for future events. We will also be sending out a survey to the directors of the schools that attended for their feedback regarding this tradition.
All rules were sent to the directors well in advance, and then again in their packets the day of the contest. I have to admit that breaking the news to Mrs. Weihe that her group would be getting the lowest possible placement was awful. My students and I all really enjoy the bond we have with NC, and admire them very much. It was a difficult rule for me to enforce, but the rule was very clear. In fact I only witnessed this violation by trying to help a member of their staff.
Again, for the record - I am a huge NC fan (and to you sceptics out there I mean that). We had an amazing contest Sat. and the amazing groups that performed are being ignored because of this unfortunate situation. Could we get back to congratulating the choirs for their efforts?
I would be happy to debate or discuss in private with anyone... IM me please.
Hersel
I am just quoting this because people are still wondering what happened even though Hersel (who made the call) cleared it up a while ago.
From what I understand, they used a communication device (someone's mouth) to speak with the band director after that someone had walked into the house and back.
That's a stretch... I mean a BIG stretch if that's the case. I see no violation based on that rule. A device is exactly that, a device. A mouth is not a device. I also feel a "lowest placement" penalty would have to be a 100% clear violation. I don't think it's clear at all. The wording and what NC did were two opposite things.
Heaven forbid somebody screams "Band you are too loud" during a performance.
From what I understand, they used a communication device (someone's mouth) to speak with the band director after that someone had walked into the house and back.
10. You may not use any communication device including but not limited to
walkie-talkies, cell phones,
text messaging, etc. to send messages from any spectator area to
the director during the performance.
If this is the rule they are accused of breaking... how did they?
So Did NC do the same thing happen with the Descants? cuz they won...
Not tryna be rude just curious....
No. The Descants do not share a band director with CP nor is the band the same. And we did have band issues during finals, but clearly those didn't matter that much.
I would just like to clarify what I think is a point that no one has mentioned about NC Counterpoints being dq'd. The band was performing off stage in the wings, not onstage in back of the choir. If anyone has ever tried that, you would know how difficult that really is, but they made that adjustment to be able to add another riser for the choir's program.
I did not see the other groups so I do not know if any other choirs' band performed off stage. For Counterpoints, the entire choir was relying on what they could hear from the wing the band was playing from, but more so, what they were hearing in the floor monitors. It is a "live and learn" situation, but it was not an intentional violation.
I am very proud of how NC CPs have handled themselves. While they were dissappointed for themselves, they were supportive of every other choir that made it to the finals. They also had to sit there and watch while the other NC women's choir, Descants, performed in the finals (which they won-congrats!) and I never heard one single compaint. I'm proud to be a Counterpoints supporter and wish them the best at the FC Hoosier Classic.
With so many great show choirs in Indiana, you all push each other to be better, it is a pleasure to watch!
The number of competing groups at a given competition out here varies from as few as six to over 50. And only one venue that I know of schedules time for choir sound checks. Most do not. And we allow use of radio communications.
Such radios do not need to interfere with audio. Television shows have literally hundreds of staff and crew on wireless IFB (interruptible fold back) systems (aka wireless ITE or In The Ear systems) and walkie-talkies all at the same time without interfering with house or recording audio whatsoever.
Technology has come so far since show choir was started that you are right, the good wireless communication systems won't interfere, mostly just the cheaper "Radio Shack" type, especially now that everything has gone digital, etc. I think it is one of those rules that has just always been around and no-one really gave it a second thought until something like this happens. Great information though.
Thanks for the insight.
P.S. Since I'm stuck here in snowy Indiana, I haven't heard much about John Burroughs show this year. (I'm sure it's in a thread somewhere) I absolutely loved last year.
Ben Davis Giant Spectacular 2010
