the scores in prelims went
North Central-167.2
Bendavis-166.2
Franklin Central-166
Carmel- 165.8
The scored in Finals went
North Central-179.1
Franklin Central- 172.8
Ben Davis- 170
However on another note i just want to say congratulations to CP!!! U guys rocked your night show and improved by 12.1 points!! Thats a well accomplished and well deserved win. You were very professional to Franklin Cnetral and Ben Davis and you handeled yourself like a Sate Championship show choir should!! Im very impressed in the way your show was improved from Bendavis and am very confident in how you will do in New York
this is a great point
however,
i belive what PSyoudontfoolme is saying, and correct me if i'm wrong,
is that it's somewhat peculiar for a choir, even as amazing as the counterpoints are,
to go out and WIN a State Championship competition with a different show than one they qualified with.
yes "closer" was not working for the counterpoints and it is a testament to the program to be able to pull from a library of such amazing archives
but who's to say that changing the key of the number or eliminating some questionable choreography is a greater feat?
i attended state all day and personally had CP in first
their show was amazing and deserved the win
i do feel that they took the easy way out, however, and the rules of ISSMA should be reevaluated..otherwise what's to stop a choir from learning two shows for a season and competing with one during daytime and the other during finals?
the rule for all, at least all indiana, competitions (including issma) is that you must compete with the same show during that competition. now if a choir learned two shows in a year and competed with one at one competition and the second show at their next, thats legal. but i dont know any choir director that would ask their students to learn and clean two whole shows. think about all of the rehearsal time that would take. no teached in their right mind would ask their kids to do that. im sure weihe even debated changing "closer" in the first place..but it was in the best interest of CP. and hey, it worked.
But top choirs re-use good material all the time; sometimes updated, other times exactly as was done before. "Earth Song" was virtually unchanged in Burroughs' competition shows in 1997 and 2006. Clinton has resurrected "Aint No Mountain High Enough," "Gold" and "In His Eyes" over the years. Carmel did "Side By Side By Sondheim" in their 1977 and 80 competition shows, and "Skylark" in their 1978 and 1981 competition shows. (With that amazing library of arrangements they'd be crazy not to dig into the archives even today.) Even "Phantom Regiment" brought back their phenomenal "Spartacus" show to amazing results in DCI last year. Why not? I say.
this is a great point
however,
i belive what PSyoudontfoolme is saying, and correct me if i'm wrong,
is that it's somewhat peculiar for a choir, even as amazing as the counterpoints are,
to go out and WIN a State Championship competition with a different show than one they qualified with.
yes "closer" was not working for the counterpoints and it is a testament to the program to be able to pull from a library of such amazing archives
but who's to say that changing the key of the number or eliminating some questionable choreography is a greater feat?
i attended state all day and personally had CP in first
their show was amazing and deserved the win
i do feel that they took the easy way out, however, and the rules of ISSMA should be reevaluated..otherwise what's to stop a choir from learning two shows for a season and competing with one during daytime and the other during finals?
But top choirs re-use good material all the time; sometimes updated, other times exactly as was done before. "Earth Song" was virtually unchanged in Burroughs' competition shows in 1997 and 2006. Clinton has resurrected "Aint No Mountain High Enough," "Gold" and "In His Eyes" over the years. Carmel did "Side By Side By Sondheim" in their 1977 and 80 competition shows, and "Skylark" in their 1978 and 1981 competition shows. (With that amazing library of arrangements they'd be crazy not to dig into the archives even today.) Even "Phantom Regiment" brought back their phenomenal "Spartacus" show to amazing results in DCI last year. Why not? I say.
Sounds like NC did exactly what the pros do when a number's not working. Far better to do an old favorite that's tried and true than trying to force something to work. It's a testament to the NC program that they have a library of great material to pull from, as well as the kids so well trained that they could pull it off so quickly and so well.
Without getting too off topic can you explain by "having trouble keeping your numbers up"? I'm just curious about the size of your choirs with 1300 students at your school
There are groups in the area that consistently have 50-60 members. And if you want to have the loud sound that seems to appease the judges, it's hard to compete with half to two-thirds the people.
But top choirs re-use good material all the time; sometimes updated, other times exactly as was done before. "Earth Song" was virtually unchanged in Burroughs' competition shows in 1997 and 2006. Clinton has resurrected "Aint No Mountain High Enough," "Gold" and "In His Eyes" over the years. Carmel did "Side By Side By Sondheim" in their 1977 and 80 competition shows, and "Skylark" in their 1978 and 1981 competition shows. (With that amazing library of arrangements they'd be crazy not to dig into the archives even today.) Even "Phantom Regiment" brought back their phenomenal "Spartacus" show to amazing results in DCI last year. Why not? I say.
Sounds like NC did exactly what the pros do when a number's not working. Far better to do an old favorite that's tried and true than trying to force something to work. It's a testament to the NC program that they have a library of great material to pull from, as well as the kids so well trained that they could pull it off so quickly and so well.
So should we be expecting to hear "When David Heard" or "Earth Song" or "The Show Must Go On" in future years? Would the team at John Burroughs (the team that is constantly moving show choir forward) re use a number??? If you did, wouldn't you change the choreo and try and make it a little better? Anything?
Sounds like NC did exactly what the pros do when a number's not working. Far better to do an old favorite that's tried and true than trying to force something to work. It's a testament to the NC program that they have a library of great material to pull from, as well as the kids so well trained that they could pull it off so quickly and so well.
I think the class system is divided well. 1700 students is a good cut off. plainfield barely has 1300 students and we have major trouble keeping our numbers up as i'm sure other class B schools do as well. i love it when class B schools can hold their own at regular competitions because it shows they're not better than us, but at the same time the two classes makes it more fair come state.
Without getting too off topic can you explain by "having trouble keeping your numbers up"? I'm just curious about the size of your choirs with 1300 students at your school
CP. Please do not get caught up or respond to such madness! You do not have to explain anything to anyone.I am so proud of you guys and I look forward to our trip to NYC! Also,
Congrats to all choirs that participated in ISSMA 2009! It was a great day of music and entertainment!
thanks,
woody
I completly agree...no matter how great you are someone is going to find some way to be negative so just enjoy yourselves and keep loving what you do kick butt in the big apple
I was NOT in anyway bashing the North Central Counterpoints. I am just NOT impressed with the score grubbing that is going on with their designers. You had a great idea, the judges were too old and set in their ways to appreciate it, it could have been epic, and you ruined it to get the scores.
IT IS STILL A FANTASTIC SHOW! It just doesn't have the "pushing the envelope" effect that your prelims show at BD had... Sorry i'm a little disappointed.
I have already stated that I'm 100% sure that NC deserved their win at State. I'm sure they came out and rocked it. THEY ALWAYS DO.
All i'm saying is i wish they hadn't given up on a really cool concept.
CP. Please do not get caught up or respond to such madness! You do not have to explain anything to anyone.I am so proud of you guys and I look forward to our trip to NYC! Also,
Congrats to all choirs that participated in ISSMA 2009! It was a great day of music and entertainment!
thanks,
woody
this year was definitely an experience for everyone. the classes gave smaller schools chances they didn't have previously to show what they were made of. most of the class B schools are from the northern parts of indiana and don't go to the same competitions. i had only seen two other shows this year from the schools that competed at class B state and when i saw the others...i was pleasantly surprised! these schools i had never even heard of had amazing shows and hopefully the class system will encourage more schools to get involved.
i have a few qualms with the was ISSMA state was handled. i guess the biggest one is just me, but i don't like class A and B being on the same night. i really wanted to see FC, LC, NC, Carmel, Castle, Pike...heck all of the class A schools perform because they all do it well and always provide an entertaining show. Sure, i can buy a dvd, but, come on, we all know it's better live =D also i didn't like how they did the prelim awards. i heard about the mixup at class A which was uncalled for, and then the whole announcing in performance order just bugged me, personally.
I think the class system is divided well. 1700 students is a good cut off. plainfield barely has 1300 students and we have major trouble keeping our numbers up as i'm sure other class B schools do as well. i love it when class B schools can hold their own at regular competitions because it shows they're not better than us, but at the same time the two classes makes it more fair come state.
these are only my personal opinions. congrats to counterpoints, ever since i got into show choir i've been rooting for you guys. congrats to dekalb, i heard several rude things about you guys from the state competition but only hope their rumors. you guys performed your show well. you had power. you rocked it. you deserve what you got.
B&B...it's been a great year. i couldn't have asked for a better ending to my show choir career =)
v
Sorry, but the only change NC made was using an exact replica of an already overused number. Well that, simplifying the choreo in the opener, and changing the order. Oh, btw, Most of the choirs at NYC aren't going to be doing a BOW 2 or 3 minutes prior to the end of their show... You might want to work on that.
ouch. sorry you didn't like it, but really? i thought this forum was for discussion, not bashing.
Um first of all, you do not remember correctly...I never said anything about the show being too raunchy so you can hold those little horses. I'm okay with making changes...aka improving your show...but completely changing the show for the state competition...not okay. I just think that since ISSMA put NC through on the show that contained "Closer"...that's the show they wanted, that's the show they put in the competition. I don't understand why that seemed like an okay thing to do. If you are constantly going flat or sharp on a number, you practice it more...you get better. You don't remove it completely.
Thanks for the backup Scott. I appreciate it. It's good to know that others agree.
Indiana State Small School Finals 2009
kick butt in the big apple
sorry you didn't like it, but really? i thought this forum was for discussion, not bashing.