I came back on here to see if there was any more info into what happened. All I see is blank everywhere. It’s slightly scary. Coronavirus is now wiping out SCC
There were many emotions felt and assumptions made about the decision before an explanation was given to students about what happened. Students and parents of WWS are now aware of the full story and while I’m not sure if I’m at liberty to disclose any information, I can confidently say that WWS is proud to share the title of GC with MTZ.
As someone who runs scoring at a competition, I’m always looking for ways we can improve our system and navigate any potential errors. I was hoping for some more information, but I agree it shouldn’t come from uninformed speculation.
Final revised comment based on additional info: There is an incredible amount of talent on stage and we should all be supportive of all groups. I was proud to give a standing ovation to many other groups this weekend, and was grateful to have the opportunity to personally compliment several soloists from other groups. While it is crushing for kids to have a result changed, rules are rules and the results need to be correct. I am sorry for letting my passion for the craft and concern for our kids get the best of me!
I was not at this contest, so I can’t speak to the actual rankings used, but it seems to me that it was a simple mistake. It looks like it was nothing more than a scoring error, based on the directors comment. So I don’t think that it should be questioned.
Hello everyone!
We wanted to provide an update about our final placements from this past Saturday. It was brought to our attention that a mix up may have occurred when placements were calculated for the top 3 groups in the finals round. Upon further inspection, we discovered that an inaccuracy occurred which incorrectly awarded placements to the top 3 groups but did not affect the bottom 3 groups. We are truly sorry for this mistake, and have made the decision to rectify the situation by awarding Co-Grand Champion to the Mt. Zion Swingsations and the Wheaton-Warrenville South Classics, as well as keeping Decatur Elite Energy as the 1st Runner-Up. The caption awards were calculated correctly and will stay with their respective groups. We believe this is the best way to ensure that these ensembles are properly recognized for their work this weekend. Again, our sincerest apologies for the scoring inaccuracy. Please know that we always strive to put on a top-notch contest at Glenwood and believe in serving students first by giving them the recognition and feedback they need to continue their growth as performers. We want to again thank all of the groups that attended The EVENT for joining us this past weekend and hope to see all of the spectators, performers, and directors again in the future!
Sincerely,
Nick Brockamp
Choral Director, Glenwood High School
Sounds like WWS earned their top spot by being excellent in both vocals and choreography! That doesn't take away from the other groups amazing performances but in the end, WWS delivered in both vocals and choreo. Congrats to all! It's great for show choir to have such tough competitions.
*To clear up any confusion*
The competition used an ordinal ranking system. The same system that caused a little bit of a stir at Urbandale last year (Hence my familiarity with the system lol). The group with the most first-place rankings is put in first. After that, The next group that is placed is the one with the most second-place rankings. What I mean by this is that once first place is decided, all the groups (excluding the group that was just placed) rankings shift up, all twos become ones, all threes become twos, etc. Then they look at the rankings to see who has the most first-place rankings at that time, determining the next group's placement. WWS had both the most first-place rankings and the lowest sum of rankings in the beginning so they were placed first with no issue. After WWS was placed and excluded from the rankings, MTZ and Decatur had the same amount of first-place rankings, causing them to be tied, which was broken by Decatur's vocal caption. Before even placing ordinally, you could already see trends for placements as 4/5 judges placed WWS over Decatur and 2/5 placed them over MTZ; For Decatur, 3/5 of the judges placed them over MTZ and 1/5 of the judges placed them over WWS; and for MTZ 2/5 of the judges placed them both over Decatur and WWS. This system always seems to yield weird results but it makes sense as to why it's used. Sometimes the majority of judges place a group consistently over another, but score all groups across the board much closer and lower than, let's say, one judge who may score one group that all the other judges may have put consistently in second MUCH higher than any other group, causing that group to edge out first place in raw score. The ordinal ranking system is designed to combat that, sometimes more efficiently than other times, but most of the time it works out if the scoring is uniform and for the most part consistent. The system needs refinement but I have learned to love it because more often than not it will stop an outlier score from impacting the overall results.
Either way, big props to all the groups that performed this weekend. I really wish I could have been home to go and spectate this competition in person. I know everyone must have done incredible!
A system that yields a Grand Champion who didn't have the best vocal performance or the best choreography performance in a singing and dancing competition definitely "needs refinement". Wacky results lead to suspicion and leaving people questioning the integrity of the competition.
For a couple of years now, competitions, where the GC has no captions, have been happening more often, not more commonly, just more than usual. For example, this is the second competition of the YEAR that Decatur Elite Energy has attended where they received a vocal caption and the group that won received no major caption. Sometimes groups just have a great balance between their choreography and vocal performance, while others have better vocals than choreography or vice versa. These types of results are uncommon, not impossible. While very complex, in essence, show choir is a duality. All groups strive to achieve a balance between their choreography and vocals, all the other aspects of a show that add to its greatness are accessories. In show choir, we note dance breaks and vocal moments the most. Sometimes a group, while not the best in either category at that competition, has the best balance of the two that allows them to edge out what they lacked in either category. Right now more than ever we are seeing various different groups gaining momentum and reaching levels of expertise that used to be rare. I only suspect results like this are going to become more common as this great art continues to grow even more, and as schools continue to get better. That is just what makes Show Choir so exciting.
Jose’, thank you, well explained. But if MTZ and WWS each had (2) 1st place votes, the choreo caption wasn’t a tie breaker in MTZ’s favor? By deferring to the ‘mean’ or lowest total as a tie breaker, you pull potential outliers back in, which is what this system was designed to avoid.
Then when you have another tie for second, suddenly the caption emerges as a tie breaker? You can see why folks are perplexed.
Actually, remembering what I saw from the raw scores, they most likely used vocal scores for a tie-breaker in the case of WWS and MTZ, just like they did for the tie between Decatur and MTZ. If I remember correctly, WWS also had a higher vocal score than MTZ. So I am positive I made a mistake in citing WWS GC placement as a result of the lowest sum, it is probably based on the vocal score! Sorry for the confusion!
I think you are making a logical conclusion based on the results,. But if you are going to look at the raw scores, the overall scores would be the obvious barometer. The vocal portion is already weighted, but this method completely discounts the choreo and the overall scores. This can’t be right.
Both assumptions Jose made are correct. Wheaton had a higher vocal score and the lower total score, which means that using either tie-breaking method Wheaton would have won. I do not know of any competitions where choreography is used as a tie breaker.
Thank you. I think you are correct, after scanning some other events with similar results.
I think the ‘peek at the scorecards’ was difficult for a few to rationalize against the final placements, myself included.
So we learned a little about scoring today.
