I have a greater understanding of Quantum Mechanics and Modern Art than I do of the logic behind the infinitely overcomplicated and remarkably inconsistent design of the show choir Scoresheet. And, when you add in the fact that competition Prelims and Finals are often judged on different terms, the existence of a coherent, logical explanation becomes a near impossibility. It would be like the NCAA seeding it's Tournament based on the country's best collegiate basketball teams and then crowning their eventual Champion based on the outcome of a Hockey game. It's just weird...and my hats off to everyone who is able to keep this stuff in the background where it belongs and continue to deliver amazingly high levels of entertainment like we were privileged to at this competition.
My question is more specifically HOW it was judged. Was it in fact 3/5ths vocal over choreography (as opposed to 50/50), and did each judge score ONLY on their specific caption alone, or did they have a section for the other side as it were as well?
My understanding is that during prelims, the 3 vocal judges only judged vocals, and the same for the 2 visuals judges. During finals, they all judged everything. Not sure how I feel about that...
Who were the judges here? That's always telling.
Vocal judges: Ly Wilder, Susan Moninger, and Paul Gulsvig
Visual judges: Brennan Wilder and Tony Gibson
Instrumental judge: Mark Lindvahl
My question is more specifically HOW it was judged. Was it in fact 3/5ths vocal over choreography (as opposed to 50/50), and did each judge score ONLY on their specific caption alone, or did they have a section for the other side as it were as well?
The final rankings did come out as I thought they might - it was a tough pill for me to put Buffalo Grove in 4th, because I really dug that show (the choreography and design is just amazing to me), but even without taking the possibility of 3/5 being the vocal component, I tend to hold things higher along vocal lines anyway, and for me that hurt BG a little bit - and thought Carmel's show really came together in finals enough to bump them up to 2nd (I had them in 5th in prelims - the show seemed really frazzled to me, but a lot seemed sorted out to me when I saw it again later - and that helped their vocals come through more).
It was a great contest - with a number of groups of similar ability that could obviously flip places the following week.
Perhaps there is now a disconnect in between what the audience likes to see and hear and what the judges look for? Or just riding on the reputation of their "name?"
I have really noticed a disconnect between what judges see and what the audience sees. I do think some of it is judges are afraid to be the ones to score an upset. They don't want their reputation as a judge tarnished, so they stick with the names/styles they know.
I think JWill is right that a lot of it is the scoresheets used these days. I have noticed there are many competitions that have multiple categories in the realm of "execution" or "effectiveness" of choreography. I have seen scoresheets that give more points to costuming and props than song choices and show design. I've seen scoresheets that are very specific, and scoresheets that are much more general. The more general ones tend to produce results that the audience will agree with. Very very specific scoresheets have made for some interesting results that audiences have come away from the competition wondering what happened. There COULD be a large discussion on scoring in show choir, but I don't know if there is a big appetite/consensus on how that should go.
I really enjoyed Madison Central's Mardi Gras themed show, but I question whipping those beads out into the audience. I saw a few people get hit and one older lady got smacked really hard in the face and WAS NOT pleased! Maybe they could just toss them to the first 2 or 3 rows and then they wouldn't feel like they have to throw them so hard. (Fun show though!)
The Buffalo Grove soloist who won is named Milan Babic. (Pronounced: Me-lon Bob-bich)😊
quote name='rosslemke26' date='1425774557' post='564416'>Outstanding crew: Carmel Ambassadors
Best Instrumental: Buffalo Grove
Best Female Solo In show: Prospect (Natalie Cariote)
Best Male Solo in a show: Prospect (Mike something..)
Solo comp winners:
Male: Mylon Babeck-Buffalo Grove (might of butchered the name)
Female: Marley McLane-Madison Central
Festival division:
1RU: Carmel Cadence
GC: HL Richards Encore
Single-Gender:
2RU: Prospect Company
1RU: Waubonsie Girls In Heels
GC: Carmel Accents
Finalists in Performance Order:
Wheaton North Flight
Buffalo Grove Expressions
Glenwood Titan Fever
Prospect Mixed Company
Waubonsie Valley Sound Check
Carmel Ambassadors
I'll take a stab at it: Judges judge by artificially compartmented categories on the score sheet, audiences judge by overall impact of the show. Carmel sang and danced very well, but lacked an interesting show design. The score sheet de-emphasizes show design, energy, and emotion in favor of mechanics.
By interesting show design you mean, opener, ballad, boys number, girls number, closer? Because if you saw Chicagoland, Carmel and Milton were the only shows that did something unique and different.
I'll take a stab at it: Judges judge by artificially compartmented categories on the score sheet, audiences judge by overall impact of the show. Carmel sang and danced very well, but lacked an interesting show design. The score sheet de-emphasizes show design, energy, and emotion in favor of mechanics.
Alright. Well, being one of the crew members of the Ambassadors set. I have never seen them work so hard before on that set. Every time before their final performance at Chicagoland was average. But when they performed it at finals, as someone who has seen it 10 times before, I was blown away. I could not believe how wonderful and magnificent they worked. They worked their butts off during that set and they made it the best they'be ever done. I am extremely proud of them and they earned 1st runner up.
I'll take a stab at it: Judges judge by artificially compartmented categories on the score sheet, audiences judge by overall impact of the show. Carmel sang and danced very well, but lacked an interesting show design. The score sheet de-emphasizes show design, energy, and emotion in favor of mechanics.
I would argue that Carmel's "show design" was actually a bit more creative...and i think they peformed with plenty of energy and emotion...
I am not saying that I am also not a bit suprised by their placement. I personally had them in 4th, but I could see how the pureness of their vocal tone that carried throughout the show could have given them a really good vocal score, and the creativity and stylistic changes in their choreography was great.
I think that the entire competition was just very close between the top 5 groups. It could have swung any way.
Why is it that people seem to have expected Carmel to be placed lower than it is? I am not bashing anybody, just honestly curious as to why this seems to be the case. I realize before the competition it seems the stars were not aligned for them due to the director change and recent off year, but what in their (finals) show made people not place them so well?
Again, just honestly curious as an old alumnus from back in the day. Perhaps there is now a disconnect in between what the audience likes to see and hear and what the judges look for? Or just riding on the reputation of their "name?" Although that last one might not be so true due to the very large number of well known, quality programs here, but it still must be taken into consideration.
Stay classy folks.
PS This is mostly due to the large amount of likes accrued on posts created after the results were published and that were specifically in response to the outcomes. Again, no hard feelings!
I'll take a stab at it: Judges judge by artificially compartmented categories on the score sheet, audiences judge by overall impact of the show. Carmel sang and danced very well, but lacked an interesting show design. The score sheet de-emphasizes show design, energy, and emotion in favor of mechanics.
Why is it that people seem to have expected Carmel to be placed lower than it is? I am not bashing anybody, just honestly curious as to why this seems to be the case. I realize before the competition it seems the stars were not aligned for them due to the director change and recent off year, but what in their (finals) show made people not place them so well?
Again, just honestly curious as an old alumnus from back in the day. Perhaps there is now a disconnect in between what the audience likes to see and hear and what the judges look for? Or just riding on the reputation of their "name?" Although that last one might not be so true due to the very large number of well known, quality programs here, but it still must be taken into consideration.
Stay classy folks.
PS This is mostly due to the large amount of likes accrued on posts created after the results were published and that were specifically in response to the outcomes. Again, no hard feelings!
The 6 finalists all performed very well, but I really enjoyed Glenwood and thought they really brought it. Their choreo is very good. I like Wheaton's show concept more than BG, but thought BG performed better in finals than WN. I really didn't like Carmel's show. It just lost me. They are good performers, but I just didn't get the whole Willy Wonka thing...but then I wasn't judging!! It's late and I think I'm becoming incoherent - good night all!
John Hersey Chicagoland Showcase (Day Two) 2015
