After having just read through this topic, I feel it has veered wildly off-course and in particular, it is time for Mr. Scott Cowden to take a break from posting on SCC. I apologize for him for his misuse of my forums. Thank you to the majority of other users who have kept a cool head amongst the back and forth dribble.
I will once again extend the invitation for anyone to send me a private message at any time if there is a questionable post made on the forums that I can attend to. While I absolutely respect free speech and believe SCC should be a place where choirs can be discussed thoroughly by means of constructive criticism, I won't stand for obscenities, threats, or outright name-calling or slander. Thank you.
In reality o fortuna isnt that hard of piece to sing musically. Basses are for the most part on repeat and the song doesnt break into more than six parts. At least not for how much of it NC sang anyway. Still even if they didn't sing it like a godly choral group... it's show choir, it was interesting, and they did very well that year. Besides i thought this was about ISSMA 2009. Good job to all the choirs at state. Fun day.
Silly Scott... Carmina Burana is NOT an opera.... so O Fortuna is not from one either.... which means it can't be a disgrace to opera.
Also, last year EVERYONE was buzzing about how awesome it was. So obviously it wasn't a disgrace anyways. Why do you always have to diss other people's shows. They worked really hard on it. And they probably look better dancing onstage than you did..... Oh wait....
Thank you Jay,
Considering I'm a voice major (which you might have noticed from my constant spewings about VOCALS) I DID realize that Carmina Burana isn't an Opera piece you silly twat. It's a cantata, based on 24 poems.
THE REASON i used carmina burana as an example, was simply because the person i was replying to considered proper vocal technique to be "Screechy screamy opera, If they don't know nothing about show choir then they shouldn't be judging" or something to that effect. He obviously needed an Example of how even the BEST show choirs in the country aren't strong enough vocally to tackle major literature...
Orff would have been turning in his grave if he'd seen North Central's version (kind of how i felt watching it in my seat).
Yeah, it's cool if the only genre of choral music you listen to is high school satb repetoire and show choir arrangements. If you'd heard any other version of the piece (say this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzSaKFSglsI&feature=related) You'd have been appalled at the idea of 55 highschool students trying to pull of something SO EPIC.
Show choir is to choral music, what Marching Band is to Orchestra.
I love both, but you have to be able to admit how silly it is....
wocttocs, i find it odd that you can bash, put down, find fault, or not like any show/choir but FCs. FC is a very good choir and in no way should this be taken in any other way, but i doubt that they are perfect in the way that you are making them out to be. even as a former member of the pike encores, i was always able to take a step back and look at choirs with a somewhat non-biased point of view, and i certainly never bashed any other choir.
it seems that people are now starting to bash choirs on this site, and like woody said this is completely rude and not needed. everyone has their opinions, but there is no reason to bash another choir. i would hate for a site like this to be shut down because people take things to the next level and do not simply give constructive criticism, but bash people instead.
choirs work incredibly hard on what they do, and they do not deserve to be put down in any way.
ok, venting over. lol
I said PLENTY of things about FC at the beginning of the year, True by the end of the year i ran out of things to say, the solos got better, the diagonals and blocking got a LOT cleaner, the choreo started to pop, and the vocals were finally in balance throughout the whole show at state.
NC was not as clean, they outperformed FC yes, but because of the changes late in the year to their show, it was obviously not ready at State.
the top 5 at state were SO CLOSE it's hard to say who's better than who, and i really don't care.
NC got their deserved state win. Just as they do nearly every year, their students and parents can once again go around the halls at competitions talking about the State Champ counterpoints and how no one else at "this competition stands a chance".
State results are very weird every year, though this year i agreed with the results and i'm still getting pissed on.
Everyone works VERY hard to get their show to the highest level by the end of the year. That fact is undeniable, unfortunately you can't possibly hope to "compete" (at all) and not deal with criticism from people you feel have no right to criticize you.
I'm really sorry i don't feel like sugar coating every post
First of all, let's not get an attitude. I was being respectful and not trying to offend anyone. I realize that Carmel was very impressive in past years. However, this is the first year that I've actually seen them use real vocals--as opposed to last year where they tapped for a large part of the show without singing. And aren't you guys choreographed by Jarad Voss? So by saying that Ben Davis' choreography isn't "choreography" (seeing as they are choreographed by Jarad as well), doesn't the same apply for you too? Just a thought. And about them singing to loud, I'm pretty sure there's no problem there. Dynamics maybe? I don't know, it's something that alot of choirs apparently don't know how to use. Maybe you missed the soft sections. Obviously they're doing something right because they were first in vocals going into finals as they were in many competitions they attended this year. I'm not bashing on Carmel, North Central, or Franklin Central--I'm just merely trying to defend a choir who doesn't get enough credit for how hard they work and are still being put down even after they show what they are truly capable of.
Although I do not go to carmel or know anyone there, they are my favorite choir to watch, I feel that they definitely should have made finals, and it really makes me mad that you would talk about them or any other choirs in such a way. Oh and by the way, there are many fallacies in your argument. Here are just a few:
"I was being respectful and not trying to offend anyone. I realize that Carmel was very impressive in past years. However, this is the first year that I've actually seen them use real vocals--as opposed to last year where they tapped for a large part of the show without singing."
Hmmm... these statements contradict each other. You were "being respectful" and yet you said carmel does not use real vocals.... They "tapped for a large part of the show without singing?" Uhh... I was at state last year and the ambassadors just tapped for the very last number, and continued to sing until they got to the big dance break, which was phenomenal. So if 1/8 of the show is a large part of the show then you are right... haha
"And aren't you guys choreographed by Jarad Voss?"
Hmmmm... nope I'm pretty sure Carmel's choreographer named Ron something has been on broadway and he choreographs for the colt's cheerleaders and owns the biggest dance studio in indiana.
"Ben Davis' choreography isn't "choreography"
Hmmmmm... Ben Davis dances with Guitar hero controllers... haha what?
"Obviously they're doing something right because they were first in vocals going into finals as they were in many competitions they attended this year."
Hmmmm... look earlier in this thread... one of the judges, JoAnne Stephenson is an opera singer who had never judged, or even SEEN a show choir... thus she created wide spreads of points between the choirs while any novice show choir judge separated the choirs by just a few points in prelims to make the judging a fair representation of each judges' views. Therefore the "honorable" miss Stephenson skewed the actual results of prelims.
"I'm not bashing on Carmel, North Central, or Franklin Central"
choirs work incredibly hard on what they do, and they do not deserve to be put down in any way.
I completely agree. If I have offended any choir or said anything that has put any choirs down, I apoligize. Fact of the matter is, every single choir did AMAZING at ISSMA. Every choir worked very hard and put on a great show. Every choir deserves recognition for their hard work and dedication.
This has been a great season of show choir and I am sure next year will be great too. I will be looking forward to returning next competition season to ISSMA and showchoir.com =).
wocttocs, i find it odd that you can bash, put down, find fault, or not like any show/choir but FCs. FC is a very good choir and in no way should this be taken in any other way, but i doubt that they are perfect in the way that you are making them out to be. even as a former member of the pike encores, i was always able to take a step back and look at choirs with a somewhat non-biased point of view, and i certainly never bashed any other choir.
it seems that people are now starting to bash choirs on this site, and like woody said this is completely rude and not needed. everyone has their opinions, but there is no reason to bash another choir. i would hate for a site like this to be shut down because people take things to the next level and do not simply give constructive criticism, but bash people instead.
choirs work incredibly hard on what they do, and they do not deserve to be put down in any way.
I find it odd that you continue to bash NC, me , and now, Pat Wiehe! Constructive criticism is great but, you go WAY TO FAR! You come from a respectable school and choral program! You should no better! Regardless if you have graduated, you are still representing FRANKLIN CENTRAL! I keep telling the kids to ignore your posts and that you are only writing these posts to draw attention to yourself.
Well, your last post did it for me. Please, Please stop the slander!
Well that was very silly of them. It's a disgrace to Opera as a whole to have a group of 50 high school students do "O Fortuna". Yes, North Central did it as well as could be expected, but it wasn't EVEN CLOSE to what Carl Orff had in mind, and i'm pretty sure I trust his judgment a bit more than Pat Wiehe and Woody's.
Silly Scott... Carmina Burana is NOT an opera.... so O Fortuna is not from one either.... which means it can't be a disgrace to opera.
Also, last year EVERYONE was buzzing about how awesome it was. So obviously it wasn't a disgrace anyways. Why do you always have to diss other people's shows. They worked really hard on it. And they probably look better dancing onstage than you did..... Oh wait....
mrs. wiehe wouldn't let us perform something that was "a mess," as you so kindly put it.
example a - closer. ;)
many of the vocal coaches that worked with us during 07-08 all admitted that they thought mrs. wiehe was nuts for trying to get us to sing o fortuna, and they all said we proved them wrong. sure - they had things to fix here and there, but every judge with any sort of operatic background last year praised our performance of it.
Well that was very silly of them. It's a disgrace to Opera as a whole to have a group of 50 high school students do "O Fortuna". Yes, North Central did it as well as could be expected, but it wasn't EVEN CLOSE to what Carl Orff had in mind, and i'm pretty sure I trust his judgment a bit more than Pat Wiehe and Woody's.
Ben Davis had a decent show at State, but i think you're crazy if you think you "Would have won had NC left closer in their show" FC had it wrapped up above you, and If NC had left closer in and missed finals, Carmel would have gotten their chance to perform and FC and Ben Davis BOTH would have been toast...
NO high school can perform Opera without butchering it. North Central's miserable attempt at "Oh Fortuna" from Carl Orff's "Carmina Burana" illustrates my point quite well i think. They sang it as well as 50 high school students could have, and it was a mess.
mrs. wiehe wouldn't let us perform something that was "a mess," as you so kindly put it.
example a - closer. ;)
many of the vocal coaches that worked with us during 07-08 all admitted that they thought mrs. wiehe was nuts for trying to get us to sing o fortuna, and they all said we proved them wrong. sure - they had things to fix here and there, but every judge with any sort of operatic background last year praised our performance of it.
And that is how it is, yall mite think that BD suck we dont. When it came down to it, we had a great show. We also had fun
No one is saying BD sucks. That would obviously be incorrect seeing your strong afternoon show. I personally would have you guys way up there. Maybe just a switch from 3rd to 4th.
I think the thing is no one was expecting you to make finals because of other choirs' strong seasons like Lawrence Central, and they're set in their beliefs that their favorite choirs SHOULD be finalists EVERY TIME (not exactly a bad thing though)
but as others have said in a nother forum bd was screamy an FC had issuses but were both in finals. one judge can't make too much of a difference but can make some kind of difference.
if there are four judges and three have a choir highly placed, and one has them in a miserably low position, that could make all the difference (ex. 0.2 pts)
obviously i understand the amount of work that Show Choir takes...
Unfortunately... no matter how much you work on it, NO high school can perform Opera without butchering it. North Central's miserable attempt at "Oh Fortuna" from Carl Orff's "Carmina Burana" illustrates my point quite well i think.
Really? I thought they did a great job with their opener. I thought their vocals were great.
Indiana State Large School Finals 2009
