The fact is, WE ARE NOT JUDGES!!!! What happens... happens. Are you going to petition to get a judge banned from judging? No. So deal with it or get out of the show choir world!
Anyway, can anyone list the entire panel?? Just for fun?
The pictures were fun- Sullivan looks amazing like always- if there's one thing I love about the Singers, it's the fact that you can ALWAYS count on them for great costuming, even when it seems like the rest of the show choir world is having a bad costume year.
And yes, I was there and saw each and every performance. You are entitled to your opinion just as i am mine. I would respond directly to your comments but Im not sure its worth my time or enegry.
I think all this talk about judges and who got what placement is crap...and I think whoever keeps knocking down Wheaton is rediculous. Obviously you people are going to say something about a group who everyone isn't used to seeing. I can't believe everything I'm reading...
First of all...show choirnerd from herscher...do you know what you're talking about? I mean seriously...you've never heard of Troy before? Completely rediculous...I know herscher was at MTZ last year as was Troy...maybe you should be a little more aware of what is going on...especially with the assumptions you're making about the judges. You being very irrational about their rankings. Every judge is different and maybe one judge saw something in Onalaska that the others didn't. No one is going to be happy with any of the placings so get over what these professional. educated judges were there for.
Were you even there for finals performances? Apparently not because good groups that make finals have the ability to hold back in pre-lims and really step up their game in finals. How could the panel be all over the place if Eisenhower, the group that you thought deserved GC, did? MAYBE you should try having an open-mind.
i've never liked the idea of scrapping a score sheet and only using a rankings system for determining final placements, mainly because it invites the kind of criticism and complaining we're seeing now, and every year. with that said, and with an acknowledgment that spectators/performers have every right to their own opinion, i really think Wheaton-Warrenville isn't being given their proper due.
i saw both their daytime and finals performances at Marysville the week before, and while i realize that choirs can improve or regress dramatically from week to week, and that the level of competition between Marysville and Mt. Zion is quite different, what i saw then was a group ready to compete, and possibly even win, on the scale of competitions like Mt. Zion. true, they're a smaller group, particularly when compared to giants like Eisenhower, Sullivan and Onalaska. true, they're choreographed by Dwight Jordan who aslo choreographs Mt. Zion. and true, they were placed much higher in finals than in daytime. but none of these facts diminish their level of performance, which based on their performances the week before, is extremely high, infectuously energetic and very polished.
i think what may be at the root of people's mistrust of the final results, besides Wheaton-Warrenville's relatively low profile before this competition, is the difference between performance styles of the groups that placed within finals. i've never seen Troy live, but i believe i'm correct in stating that both they and Sullivan are known for their extravagant, flashy sets. i don't believe either Onalaska and Eisenhower have employed the use of a set in their show for the past several years, but the sheer size of both groups is remarkable. and as for Homestead, they've been known to perform old numbers from other, larger Mike Weaver groups like LaCrosse Central. when looking at Wheaton-Warrenville in the midst of these large, high budget, historically-known groups, it's easy to see them as the "runt" or the group that just doesn't belong. but i firmly believe that when all of these groups were judged on how well they sang, danced and performed, it was definitely a possibility that Wheaton-Warrenville did that better than all but one of the other groups.
am i saying using rankings instead of score sheets had no effect on placements? goodness no. but as long as directors of performing groups are informed of the methods by which their groups will be judged, there really isn't any basis for complaint concerning that method weilding unfair or incorrect results. i do think that subject is one worth more concentrated discussion among participants of the show choir realm, and i certainly don't discourage anyone from sounding off their own opinion on that topic, but as far as the results of Mt. Zion are concerned, i don't think there is much basis for complaint unless the person doing it has other observations/insight to add besides that about the former reputation of a group.
Now, I cannot say a thing about all the groups performances, because I wasn't there Saturday, but it's not uncommon in the show choir world to have 4 different groups get first place votes from 4 different judges, very rarely will you have a unanimous decision. That doesn't mean that a judge has an agenda at all, they're doing what they're paid to do... judge. It's their personal opinion, you can't fault them for that.
no i dont disagree that they are hired to give their opinion what i disagree with is that someone who we are all suppossed to believe is a "respected", "educated", "trained professional" in the field of music and dance could have possible sat there and then said, i think onalaska was the best out of these six groups and these six performances today. i seriously question that persons eyes and ears. thats all.
oh yeah i know this is old but that comment about the crete girls passing out made us want to win even more so thanks for the comment because it paid off lol
i couldn't agree more more with show choir nerds statements, and troy has been around for awhile they won branson fame world cnampion last year i am prety sure. i know that they have competed at like the big dance and sullivan for awhile now.
Now, I cannot say a thing about all the groups performances, because I wasn't there Saturday, but it's not uncommon in the show choir world to have 4 different groups get first place votes from 4 different judges, very rarely will you have a unanimous decision. That doesn't mean that a judge has an agenda at all, they're doing what they're paid to do... judge. It's their personal opinion, you can't fault them for that.
So i just learned about showchoir.com this weekend at MTZ so i had to sign up!!!!!
what a great day! so much fun! BUT>>>>>>>
clearly something was afoot...
When forced to judge only what they saw and acurately (and assuming honestly) write down scores the DAY ROUND is a much more honest reflection of how the results should have turned out. When given the opportunity to then see how things fell out and then each judge kinda take on their own personal agenda to see it turn out they way they want... well that to me expains why the scores were all over the place. Seriously folks this one was a mess!
I loved the competition and the groups there but the results were REALLY WACKY!!
Eisenhower: Grand Champion clearly. no doubt, very good very solid and according to a previos post they were in first after the day round which to me says it all.
Troy: WOW! awesome job!! and some serious vocals!! no one came close to singing like you guys. I had never even heard of you guys. Are you new? you DEF should have had best vocals, and then DEF should have been 1st runner up. i thought it was clearly between you and EEE for the GC. could've gone either way but 3RU!? no way! But then if you're new, coming to an old school comp like MTZ, the "unsaid powers that be" weren't gonna let a newcomer take top prize. Judges, just like the ocsars, tend to award bodies of work at competitions like these, so dont take it too hard. i know im my opinion and the several people i sat with you were the big surprise of the day and our favorite.
Sullivan: what a great show and what a great year you're gonna have. best sullivan i have seen in several years. Mr. mullenkamp is SOO creative. loved it all. thought you got exactly the place you should have. again third in day round - third at night. great job!!
Onalaska: really just ok for me. nothing bad but just ok. i know you have a new director and it may take a week or two to get going. band was rocking but your vocals were a little under for as many people as you have on stage. the show is just ok, but you do a good job of performing it. Im not knocking you, you just have a ways to go to get up to that powerhouse level in my opinion. Seemed a little rough.
Wheaton: nice job. solid show and solid singing but i never felt like you sang anything other than a medium/medium loud. i really was surprised that you were awarded best vocals... i mean maybe the judges really liked soft singing? it was good, but not 1RU good. (my opinion)
Homstead: nice job. though we've seen all these songs before by other Mike groups. but nice none the less
So this panel was ALL OVER THE PLACE: and heres the real issue: someone posted that Onalaska got a first by one judge. Are you kidding?! Honestly? Who WAS that? no offense, i liked onalaska but at this event there is NO WAY that they were above EEE, TROY, or SULLIVAN, now that is not to say they wont be next week, or two weeks from now, but C"MON!! I think that judge should seriously be looked at if they had Onalaska in first. Right there may be the "politics" that several are referring to. That and the fact the Wheaton moved up so much. Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
A. I find it kind of funny that you think THIS is the year politics played a part in the Mt. Zion results- most of SCC would argue that this year is the first year they HAVEN'T. I wasn't there, so I have no thoughts on that, but I just found it funny.
B. Are you surprised that Wheaton-Warrenville moved up over "bigger" groups or BETTER groups? There's a pretty sizeable difference there. Just curious.
Bigger yes and in my opinion "Better" i mean dont get me wrong they were good but i think the most they sang was four part, but i don't think they were good enough to jump over groups Better than them.
how do you think that the this was the first year that they havent if you werent even there to witness the groups and see what the judges saw? just wondering?
QUOTE(show choir_guy! @ Jan 21 2007, 05:11 PM) 376082
i think the judges scored on politics in this comp, which is sad because i always thought of mt. zion being a good place to be judged because it is prety accurate but i think this time it was faulty.
i think its kinda wierd that a group that does jazz Bon Jovi and dances alright and sings alright would move up that much over bigger groups, seems weird to me.
A. I find it kind of funny that you think THIS is the year politics played a part in the Mt. Zion results- most of SCC would argue that this year is the first year they HAVEN'T. I wasn't there, so I have no thoughts on that, but I just found it funny.
B. Are you surprised that Wheaton-Warrenville moved up over "bigger" groups or BETTER groups? There's a pretty sizeable difference there. Just curious.
Mt. Zion Midwest Invitational 2007
