Serriously PEOPLE! I think we are all old enough to just drop a F**king topic. It happened long ego, MY FRIKEN LORD! That post Colton made was from the 8th board, i think this topic has been discused agian and we just need to drop it.
Greece got third here, 1st at Fame. Findley won, MTZ got 2nd. Stop taking away from what they got.
I am tired of reading these posts that are STILL stating your opinions about this competition when MAJORITY of these comments have already been made.
So Badtothebone, shut up and your grow up your self..
I am sorry. I had to get that off my chest. All SCC has become latley is a place to bash good groups, and i am getting tired of it.
,Stolba
Why is it that show choir people always tell me that they know what they are talking about. Their just like liberals, the won't change their minds no matter what. Your never going to tell them they're wrong.
ummmm.....pal I kinda have a problem with that first sentence. The person you quoted said that it was her opinion, she never said that she know's what she's talking about. Its her opinion, don't Criticize her for it. I take offense to ur second sentence. I'm a liberal, and If you give me a good enough reason to, I'll change my mind. I know I prolly just kicked another debate off again, if I did I'm sry.
Well, I'll say that I thought their ballad sounded great..however other than this, I felt that Findlay threw the majority of their sound to the walls...and I'm sure they could've gotten away with this in other venues (smaller, no carpeting, no pillars, etc.), I couldn't understand about 80 percent of their words in the opener, and for a while in their ballad, I was so used to not understanding them that it took me a while to figure out they weren't singing in English lol. I liked their ballad thought. Their vocals altogether were good, but so were Greece Athena's, MTZ, ours, and diamond bar's. I wouldn't have neccessarily put them in front of any of those, or I would've at least had a difficult time doing it. But whatever. I don't mind that they won...I just hated the comp. a "quiet zone?" it was just a goofy comp. I call for a boycott! hehe
yes, i agree this is all OPINION so i thought i'd add mine....
take it as you will, but i thought mtz should have beat findlay hands down. nothing in their show kept my attention, and they didnt perform to the audience. i saw them myself so i do know what i'm talking about. but i honestly think that the group that gets best music (vocals) and best visuals (choreography) should win... that is what show choir is about. its SHOW CHOIR simple as that... singing and dancing. now i know that me venting is not going to change the outcome - findlay won and mtz took second. all i'm saying is i feel that mtz got shafted and to them i have to say congratulations on a wonderful year and i hope for the best in the years to come, and i know u guys will just get better and better.....
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Like I've been saying, DOES N E ONE SEE MT Z complaining?!?! hmm..that must mean they DONT DISAGREE!!!!! please stop running ur mouth...and dude, ur NOT a judge and you DONT have a music degree and you DONT know what your talking about. So STOP acting like you do! The only groups that complain are the ones who come in 3-5. Mt. Zion has great shows, and Findlay does as well. Don't give me that technical crap. Why is it that show choir people always tell me that they know what they are talking about. Their just like liberals, the won't change their minds no matter what. Your never going to tell them they're wrong. Have you ever thought that you just might not have as much potential as the two top groups do?! Well... folks, the word of the day is reality.
So after the BIG SUCCESS of FAME NYC and the BIG CONTROVERSY of SHOWSTOPPERS NYC --- will showstoppers continue to decline in popularity and will FAME become the new showstoppers of the 80's and 90's? I think so. What does anyone else think? From what I've seen and heard FAME has really gotten their sh*t together this year and had some really incredible competitions. Just curious what you guys think ----- oh and THREE DAYS TILL THE SHOW CHOIR CUP!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! I AM SO FRIGGIN EXCITED!!!!!!
Just to clarify, there have been no posts made by any Mt. Zion members on this thread. From those members I have spoken with, they are satisfied with their performance, had a blast in NYC, and congatulate FFE.
And twenty.one brings up a great comment that our activity is subjective! Get 8 other judges, you get 8 other scores.
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Which means THEY ARENT COMPLAINING?! wow? what a concept i think other people should do the same! congrats to everyone, and MTZ!
well, Jon T...I gave MY opinion, along with about 100 other people who feel the same way I do lol. I think even some Findlay people were stunned. I have nothing against Findlay, and I met some really nice people from there. They 're a VERY hard working and talented group don't get me wrong. However, I personally didn't watch them and think power house, or watch them and feel threatened (like I do when I compete against good groups). Findlay had ONE judge give them a very inflated score in "over all effect," most of the other judges had us in 2nd, or 3rd, and MTZ in 1st. If you saw both of the groups perform, like I did...there is NO way you can say MTZ wasn't as good choreographically or vocally...the General effect thing in my opinion is just so judges can give high marks to shows or show styles they liked. FIndlay was VERY classic, noone else really was, except MTZ, for some of there show. I think it's unfai a group can win based on subjective behaviour like that instead of the actual criteria that makes a show choir good, regardless of style. It was bull....no arguments can be made that the competition's score card is ridiculous.... it makes me wana vomit on the keynote people .
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alright buddy, can it. Other people have stressed their opinions, but they aren't COMPETLY BIAS! It's just like people who don't win to blame it on the judging. " border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> Maybe the scoring is weird..in that case, DONT GO! It's that simple. Please, stop bashing on any or all the other groups. Thank you for your cooperation.
why must people tell others not to say certain things.... like Jorge for instance... He feels he can tell someone to not say something because it is "degrading" hmmmmm.... I will say it because it is true, buddy.
By the way... I never said that Findaly was a bad choir... they are technically Great... but that is about it.
if there is anyone who should keep things to themselves, it is those who try and preach to others about manners and respect on here. it will no get you anywhere. at least not with me... I will say things they way they are or should be...
why must people tell others not to say certain things.... like Jorge for instance... He feels he can tell someone to not say something because it is "degrading" hmmmmm.... I will say it because it is true, buddy.
By the way... I never said that Findaly was a bad choir... they are technically Great... but that is about it.
if there is anyone who should keep things to themselves, it is those who try and preach to others about manners and respect on here. it will no get you anywhere. at least not with me... I will say things they way they are or should be...
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Good Grief!!!!!!!!! " border="0" alt="blink.gif" />
why must people tell others not to say certain things.... like Jorge for instance... He feels he can tell someone to not say something because it is "degrading" hmmmmm.... I will say it because it is true, buddy.
By the way... I never said that Findaly was a bad choir... they are technically Great... but that is about it.
if there is anyone who should keep things to themselves, it is those who try and preach to others about manners and respect on here. it will no get you anywhere. at least not with me... I will say things they way they are or should be...
yes, i agree this is all OPINION so i thought i'd add mine....
take it as you will, but i thought mtz should have beat findlay hands down. nothing in their show kept my attention, and they didnt perform to the audience. i saw them myself so i do know what i'm talking about. but i honestly think that the group that gets best music (vocals) and best visuals (choreography) should win... that is what show choir is about. its SHOW CHOIR simple as that... singing and dancing. now i know that me venting is not going to change the outcome - findlay won and mtz took second. all i'm saying is i feel that mtz got shafted and to them i have to say congratulations on a wonderful year and i hope for the best in the years to come, and i know u guys will just get better and better.....
haha i should find my post that said something along these lines
None of us on here are judges, and if we are most of us don't post. That's a fact, we don't see things the same way as judges see them. Judges are trained to do what they do, none of us have had that training, whether it's bull**** or not you can't change the way the score sheet is setup get over it!! When people watch show choir from a spectator view, it's a form of entertainment. As judges, they are given criteria to follow. Mt. Zion is VERY entertaining, but that DOES NOT mean, that they should hands down win. I think they've deserved EVERY placing they've gotten, and that's the way it happens. Judges decide things based on the criteria they are given. I don't like Andy Haine's style stuff, but I respect it. Mt. Zion's stuff is one of my typical favorite types of show, more up beat, more modern stuff. They are hands done one of the best at that style, yet, they still didn't win. Why? The criteria given wasn't based on judges preference, it was judges OPINIONS in CERTAIN CATEGORIES.
There is a BROAD group of categories not on all the score sheets that could possibly be on there. If it were all on there, people would complain that there were too many points given emphasis on certain categories, and judging would become a nightmare. Score sheets would be hundreds of pages long if EVERYONE'S request was on there, but at this competition, what was on there, was on there. Take the score sheet y'all were given, and your opinion and score yourself, you might win . The fact is, none of these topics were on there, YOU CAN'T CHANGE THE PAST. I'm sure some of the judges PREFERRED Mt. Zion over Findlay, but on the criteria to score on, they couldn't possibly have it be that way.
Don't get me wrong, I love Mt. Zion, I really really really really do.
Findlay is amazing as well.
You all are degrading Findlay's grand championship that they received based on the CRITERIA given to scoring at this competition. If it were based on favoritism and like-ness of audience, Mt. Zion probably would've won, but they didn't.
I don't care who the judges were, i don't care how much training they have, I don't care that it is all "subjective", I don't care what STYLE of show you like.... Mt. Zion is a better show choir than Findlay.
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Comments like these make the person who is posting seem as though they are more qualified to assess or judge than those who actually did the judging. You might like what you saw or heard more from MTZ over Findlay, but there are technical issues usually well beyond the comprehension of students and the alumni that determine the scores. Hey we all have our preferences and sometimes it doesn't seem right when they aren't "2nd party validated," but it doesn't mean you are in any position to question the win...that's life in, yes, the "subjective world of show choir." It could be well argued the people who are least biased, while listening/viewing a performance, are the judges. Agree to disagree if you must.
The answer is this...
It was a poor competition... I hate saying this, but Findlay did not deserve what they got... If they would have finished second, like they should have...then there would not be this much negativity.
334098
Please... things like this should not be said. This takes away from the win that Findlay very much did deserve. We all have varying opinions on shows... but please, don't say that a group doesn't deserve the win. The competition may have been bad... but there is no use in bickering about it now. It won't change a thing, and it only continues to hurt feelings.
Showstoppers New York City 2005
i think other people should do the same! 
congrats to everyone, and MTZ!
" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> Maybe the scoring is weird..in that case, DONT GO! It's that simple. Please, stop bashing on any or all the other groups. Thank you for your cooperation.
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. The fact is, none of these topics were on there, YOU CAN'T CHANGE THE PAST. I'm sure some of the judges PREFERRED Mt. Zion over Findlay, but on the criteria to score on, they couldn't possibly have it be that way.