You have written some pretty vile PMs too, Scott. I know, because now people are CCing them to me and forcing me to get involved with the situation. I would much rather be working on new features for the website (like trying to figure out why Internet Explorer still won't let you do half of the things it's supposed to while every other browser works fine), but now I'm spending that energy instead playing babysitter and referee.
I believe very strongly in freedom of speech, and like JWill, I think that directors who restrict it from their students is (beyond) not classy. But I also believe in decency of speech. This forum is a place where you should feel comfortable to express your opinions and expect civil discussion in return. It is not a place for obscenities or personal attacks. Lately, it feels like many of the threads you have been involved in have headed that direction. Lest we forget you've been banned twice already; you've assured me you've mellowed from your high school days but if that's not the case I can happily do it again. For sure you aren't the only culprit here and I realize that others like to egg you on, but you seem to be the common variable and I need to ensure that my forums are a peaceful, supportive environment for everyone to discuss show choir together.
Basically, it all comes down to tact. This goes for everyone. I will defend your right to express your opinion as long as it's not slanderous and you can present it in a way that is well-supported and stated as an opinion. I will not stand for hateful speech or shouting matches. There is a right way and a wrong way to discuss things; look at the "no more finals" topic as an example of individuals who are going about it the right way for the most part. Sometimes I hear things like "SCC is so rude, that's why I don't let my students post there." Well guess what; SCC is a website. It doesn't have feelings or emotion and it can't be "rude." YOU are what makes the content good or bad. This place can be anything you want it to be. I'm just here to help keep things in check (I still think the good far outweighs the bad and even the "heated" discussions are a million times better than the kinds of things that are said on sites like YouTube). I realize that with thousands of members, it's not always going to be peaches and cream. But how about we all try to work a little harder at being mature and thinking before we post, and I will continue to work hard to make improvements to make the experience better. I think everyone will enjoy it more that way.
Häakon, I'd just like to say congrats on your 3,000th post. Hahahaha.
You have written some pretty vile PMs too, Scott. I know, because now people are CCing them to me and forcing me to get involved with the situation. I would much rather be working on new features for the website (like trying to figure out why Internet Explorer still won't let you do half of the things it's supposed to while every other browser works fine), but now I'm spending that energy instead playing babysitter and referee.
I believe very strongly in freedom of speech, and like JWill, I think that directors who restrict it from their students is (beyond) not classy. But I also believe in decency of speech. This forum is a place where you should feel comfortable to express your opinions and expect civil discussion in return. It is not a place for obscenities or personal attacks. Lately, it feels like many of the threads you have been involved in have headed that direction. Lest we forget you've been banned twice already; you've assured me you've mellowed from your high school days but if that's not the case I can happily do it again. For sure you aren't the only culprit here and I realize that others like to egg you on, but you seem to be the common variable and I need to ensure that my forums are a peaceful, supportive environment for everyone to discuss show choir together.
Basically, it all comes down to tact. This goes for everyone. I will defend your right to express your opinion as long as it's not slanderous and you can present it in a way that is well-supported and stated as an opinion. I will not stand for hateful speech or shouting matches. There is a right way and a wrong way to discuss things; look at the "no more finals" topic as an example of individuals who are going about it the right way for the most part. Sometimes I hear things like "SCC is so rude, that's why I don't let my students post there." Well guess what; SCC is a website. It doesn't have feelings or emotion and it can't be "rude." YOU are what makes the content good or bad. This place can be anything you want it to be. I'm just here to help keep things in check (I still think the good far outweighs the bad and even the "heated" discussions are a million times better than the kinds of things that are said on sites like YouTube). I realize that with thousands of members, it's not always going to be peaches and cream. But how about we all try to work a little harder at being mature and thinking before we post, and I will continue to work hard to make improvements to make the experience better. I think everyone will enjoy it more that way.
Why are we arguing on whether one choir has more difficult choreography anyways? My question is "is that choreography effective and does it compliment the style of the show?" This whole "who's the better dancers Indiana or Ohio?" is becoming overbearing and frankly childish.
I will agree with Scott on one of his points that he made earlier. This is a choral competition and the overall choral sound "should" (and there's a reason that that word is in quotes) be the deciding factor on the better rated choir. Is that always the case... nope, but until the majority of music directors begin focusing more on how the choir sounds rather that how they look, then it's just how it'll be and the better sounding groups will always remain on top while the better looking groups will fluctuate placement-wise throughout their competition seasons (i.e. the majority (not all) of the groups in Ohio, Illinois, and California.... nothing personal)
Scott, and this is directed at you, from what I've seen from reading your posts, you are very passionate about Indiana choral programs, as you should be! However, this passion is a lot of the times overblown and you take things that people say about Indiana personally and thus lash out at them (sorry but it's true) and incite arguments, sometimes when Indiana isn't even involved (i.e. Clinton "Attache" at the Totino Grace Competition). It's nice to have an opinion, but please do not let that one be the only one you can understand, but not agree with necessarily.
I agree that I do sometimes go overboard. No doubt about it.
Lets be clear. There are 3 or 4 people on this site, who can really goad me into making posts like the one above. Notice I had nothing to say to that marysville kid... obviously...
These few people have let their personal opinion of me, effect their view on the entirety of show choir in Indiana, try at every chance the get to tear down Indy choirs, and constantly force me to back up my opinions with fact instead of just taking it as my opinion. Which ends up leading to long, overblown posts...
A lot of the anger I have at certain people comes from things that are still being said to me in PMs and other avenues of chat, that are completely the opposite of the calm, collected, "Classy", redemption post these individuals use on the boards to attempt to make me look like a jerk....
It's the behind the scenes action that causes a lot of my frustration, sorry if this comes out in my posts. I'm trying to alter the way I communicate on here, to avoid this very issue, but Jay said what he said about Carmel specifically because he knew I would get pissed, being a supporter, and a very big fan of Ron Morgan's exquisite, and quite difficult choreography... It's my fault for giving into his stupid crap though.
I completely understand what you are saying and I agree, but I think you are mistaking what I'm saying. ANYONE that knows me or my style knows that I am a HUGE Andy Haines fan. I am the guy trying to bring ballroom and tap back to Iowa. I definitely stood up for the more hip-hop, modern style of choreography, but everyone knows that I am a classy guy at heart. People who I'm in the process of choosing shows with know that. I never said I hated Indiana choreography. Lord knows that is COMPLETELY the opposite of my personal opinions. People (mostly Scott) are just really really blowing up what I am saying.
As for difficulty of choreography where Carmel is concerned... I personally think Totino-Grace, Bemidji, Mitchell, CR Jefferson, as well as those already mentioned have more difficult choreography. But does that mean I think Carmel would lose to these groups? Not necessarily- I think they'd have a hard time beating TG, but I think they'd beat all the others. Carmel's ballad is gorgeous and so so musical, as i've said before. That gives them a MAJOR boost at any competition. Do I think they are the #1 group ever, No. But they are really really good. And just because I touched on some of the negative aspects of the show doesn't mean that I don't see all the amazing positives of it as well.
If you'd said this, I wouldn't have commented back on you. I disagree, but that's your opinion.
What you said earlier was not in this tone... At all, and it was pretty deroggatory. I have made an effort to not be as abrupt about what I say, and share my opinions with a more positive inflection.
Don't act like I went off over nothing. This is the first time you said anything about Carmel that was encouraging at all. In fact, what you said prior was discouraging to them, as well as to other Indiana choirs that you grouped in with your idea of "easy choreography"
I may have written too much, but it wasn't for nothing.
Why are we arguing on whether one choir has more difficult choreography anyways? My question is "is that choreography effective and does it compliment the style of the show?" This whole "who's the better dancers Indiana or Ohio?" is becoming overbearing and frankly childish.
I will agree with Scott on one of his points that he made earlier. This is a choral competition and the overall choral sound "should" (and there's a reason that that word is in quotes) be the deciding factor on the better rated choir. Is that always the case... nope, but until the majority of music directors begin focusing more on how the choir sounds rather that how they look, then it's just how it'll be and the better sounding groups will always remain on top while the better looking groups will fluctuate placement-wise throughout their competition seasons (i.e. the majority (not all) of the groups in Ohio, Illinois, and California.... nothing personal)
Scott, and this is directed at you, from what I've seen from reading your posts, you are very passionate about Indiana choral programs, as you should be! However, this passion is a lot of the times overblown and you take things that people say about Indiana personally and thus lash out at them (sorry but it's true) and incite arguments, sometimes when Indiana isn't even involved (i.e. Clinton "Attache" at the Totino Grace Competition). It's nice to have an opinion, but please do not let that one be the only one you can understand, but not agree with necessarily.
Here is my 2 cents. I believe it should be the goal of every group to be 100% clean, that's what makes a group good. I think that sloppiness is the wrong word but yes sometimes (but rarely) I have seen a few judges appreciate and reward difficult choreo that is slightly less clean.
Now my thoughts on the difficulty. I believe that it has already been said but I will add my thoughts. Some groups from Indiana use easy choreo yes, but it is like that in every state. Now for the two styles that have been gone back and fourth about. First, there is the more classic show choir style that requires students to learn stylistic dancing, most of which have not had prior dance experience, especially the guys lol. Learning how the move your body in way that matches the style is very difficult. Groups that can perfect or come close to doing so make it look easy, yet most judges will see and know just how difficult it is to pull off and reward accordingly. Second, there is the other style that has been talked about. This style does not require students to learn a form of stylistic dance, but instead forces the limits of the energy levels. This style is difficult because it requires a lot of controlled energy. Just like every show choir but especially this style, if there is too much energy vocals tend to go sharp, but if there is not enough vocals will die and go flat. Judges, seeing the difficulty in this choreo, will also reward accordingly.
Both are difficult in there own way. It is personal preference on which is better. I personally loved being able to learn different styles of dance, thus like the classic show choir. That being said I have no problem with the other, I have respect for groups like Fairfield or Marysville. They normally have a good show with tight choreo and vocals.
This is another thought that I have that doesn't just pertain to show choir. Just because you do not like something, or it is done a different way does not make it bad. It just makes it different it could be great to someone else.
I completely understand what you are saying and I agree, but I think you are mistaking what I'm saying. ANYONE that knows me or my style knows that I am a HUGE Andy Haines fan. I am the guy trying to bring ballroom and tap back to Iowa. I definitely stood up for the more hip-hop, modern style of choreography, but everyone knows that I am a classy guy at heart. People who I'm in the process of choosing shows with know that. I never said I hated Indiana choreography. Lord knows that is COMPLETELY the opposite of my personal opinions. People (mostly Scott) are just really really blowing up what I am saying.
As for difficulty of choreography where Carmel is concerned... I personally think Totino-Grace, Bemidji, Mitchell, CR Jefferson, as well as those already mentioned have more difficult choreography. But does that mean I think Carmel would lose to these groups? Not necessarily- I think they'd have a hard time beating TG, but I think they'd beat all the others. Carmel's ballad is gorgeous and so so musical, as i've said before. That gives them a MAJOR boost at any competition. Do I think they are the #1 group ever, No. But they are really really good. And just because I touched on some of the negative aspects of the show doesn't mean that I don't see all the amazing positives of it as well.
Unfortunately, the kids that their negative comments hurt, come from programs that are far too classy to allow their students to be on SCC posting in their own defense...
Restriction of freedom of speech is not classy. And I've noticed Carmel, FC, CG kids posting.
Were you at Teays Valley this year? Oh yeah... that's right... so YOU get out of this discussion, because you obviously have no idea what you're talking about and it's blatantly obvious to everyone that no one likes you.
Lol Wow. You're cool
If I wanted ppl on here to like me, I'd keep my mouth shut and just giggle and shake my head at the ignorant, sometimes hurtful things some people feel the need to say about other choirs. Unfortunately, the kids that their negative comments hurt, come from programs that are far too classy to allow their students to be on SCC posting in their own defense...
So even if I'm hated on here, It's worth it, because I have no problem saying what a lot of other ppl are thinking, and taking the brunt of the insults and whatever other mindless, biased, unfounded comments come my way. Why not just stop? Because then this forum would go back to being completely one sided, or a complete bore...
So go ahead, take your shots... lol Clearly that gets me to shut up
Here is my 2 cents. I believe it should be the goal of every group to be 100% clean, that's what makes a group good. I think that sloppiness is the wrong word but yes sometimes (but rarely) I have seen a few judges appreciate and reward difficult choreo that is slightly less clean.
Now my thoughts on the difficulty. I believe that it has already been said but I will add my thoughts. Some groups from Indiana use easy choreo yes, but it is like that in every state. Now for the two styles that have been gone back and fourth about. First, there is the more classic show choir style that requires students to learn stylistic dancing, most of which have not had prior dance experience, especially the guys lol. Learning how the move your body in way that matches the style is very difficult. Groups that can perfect or come close to doing so make it look easy, yet most judges will see and know just how difficult it is to pull off and reward accordingly. Second, there is the other style that has been talked about. This style does not require students to learn a form of stylistic dance, but instead forces the limits of the energy levels. This style is difficult because it requires a lot of controlled energy. Just like every show choir but especially this style, if there is too much energy vocals tend to go sharp, but if there is not enough vocals will die and go flat. Judges, seeing the difficulty in this choreo, will also reward accordingly.
Both are difficult in there own way. It is personal preference on which is better. I personally loved being able to learn different styles of dance, thus like the classic show choir. That being said I have no problem with the other, I have respect for groups like Fairfield or Marysville. They normally have a good show with tight choreo and vocals.
This is another thought that I have that doesn't just pertain to show choir. Just because you do not like something, or it is done a different way does not make it bad. It just makes it different it could be great to someone else.
Well said. I don't have a problem with ppl saying that the styles are equally difficult, even though I do personally disagree...
I have an issue with someone who knows nothing, calling another state's choreography easy with a blanket statement...
I think in Indiana the judges tend to look for a different style of choreography. They look for REALLY clean lines, sharp choreo, with a certain visual style, which kind of leads to easier choreography. Because, if you are not 100% clean, don't bother competing in Indiana. I don't think that is true in all places, though. I find that in other states, judges will excuse a little sloppiness if the choreography is full of energy, exciting, and visually difficult.
This is not necessarily my opinion, as I don't rate one style better than the other, but it's more what I have found from watching competitions in many different states. Just kinda depends on the show choir culture in that area.
Here is my 2 cents. I believe it should be the goal of every group to be 100% clean, that's what makes a group good. I think that sloppiness is the wrong word but yes sometimes (but rarely) I have seen a few judges appreciate and reward difficult choreo that is slightly less clean.
Now my thoughts on the difficulty. I believe that it has already been said but I will add my thoughts. Some groups from Indiana use easy choreo yes, but it is like that in every state. Now for the two styles that have been gone back and fourth about. First, there is the more classic show choir style that requires students to learn stylistic dancing, most of which have not had prior dance experience, especially the guys lol. Learning how the move your body in way that matches the style is very difficult. Groups that can perfect or come close to doing so make it look easy, yet most judges will see and know just how difficult it is to pull off and reward accordingly. Second, there is the other style that has been talked about. This style does not require students to learn a form of stylistic dance, but instead forces the limits of the energy levels. This style is difficult because it requires a lot of controlled energy. Just like every show choir but especially this style, if there is too much energy vocals tend to go sharp, but if there is not enough vocals will die and go flat. Judges, seeing the difficulty in this choreo, will also reward accordingly.
Both are difficult in there own way. It is personal preference on which is better. I personally loved being able to learn different styles of dance, thus like the classic show choir. That being said I have no problem with the other, I have respect for groups like Fairfield or Marysville. They normally have a good show with tight choreo and vocals.
This is another thought that I have that doesn't just pertain to show choir. Just because you do not like something, or it is done a different way does not make it bad. It just makes it different it could be great to someone else.
for all those looking for the new high quality vids just search Carmel ambassadors 2011 and pick the concert for the community ones
I was actually looking for Carmels show this morning lol I searched "Carmel show choir 2011" and didn't get anything which seemed strange. I'll look later with the ambassador part in there
No, this is completely rude, and for someone who hasn't been to Indiana in god knows how long, to come into a conversation about whether or not an Indy choir deserved to win, and call another STATE's choreography EASY, based on his less than limited knowledge of performance art under the age of 20, is completely freaking ridiculous.
I'm not done....
Who, Jay... Would you say has more difficult choreography than Carmel this year? Burroughs, Burbank, Clinton maybe? That's about it as far as that argument is concerned... And if you can't see it then you need to stick to show choir, and never try to grasp higher forms of performance art.
Considering their new videos that were just posted tonight, (since that's all you ever base your UNPARALLELED knowledge of Indiana show choir on)It's not hard to tell Carmel clearly out sings and out performs every choir in Iowa, Which is your entire frame of reference... Who's top over there CRK? bring it on... we all know who'd win...
When was the last time a choir from Iowa took a choreo caption In Indy? You like to bring up CRJ coming to Indiana and placing 2nd against 1 out of the top 5 in Indiana that year, but who took the visual caption and the GC? lol. I guess it was because they had really easy choreo, and it looked cleaner... hahahaha.
Choreography is easier here, yet Indiana choirs (only one being in the top 3) walked into Ohio and took the top 3 spots at a contest that has 14 pages worth of discussion, without blinking an eye, in a state that values choreo more than Indiana... WOW! I guess the judges must have never seen choreography before...
Especially considering this OHIO score sheet doesn't favor vocals as much as ISSMA's does, you'd think our choirs would get some respect, but no... It's still easy choreo compared to armography and cheesy footwork that only covers the vocals and makes it less realistic an art form, and causes the kids to look corny while attempting a style that the VERY FEW can pull off...
(I'd really like you to watch the new vids of Carmel and even TRY to tell me that any choir in Ohio, Iowa, OR Minnesota compares to that... who, Totino Grace? no... Fairfield? CRK? no... )
Get a grip,
When was the last time you watched a competition in Indiana? Oh yeah... that's right... so get the eff out of this discussion, because you have no idea what you're talking about and it's blatantly obvious to everyone who didn't study dance at the university of CRW....
"Visually Difficult?" You don't even know how to define that, You're pulling terms out of your A** because you clearly have NO IDEA what difficulty is having apparently never studied or appreciated tap, jazz, or ballroom. It's pathetic that you're being so stubborn just because you don't want to look like the idiot that you truly have been for the past 6 years, while continually pretending it was I didn't know what I was talking about... lol.
Notice none of the choreographers on the site are on here discussing this? Yet I've seen all of them look... You think any of them want to back me up and call another's work less difficult? No... but, I certainly haven't gotten any messages other than "you're completely right, but just let it go, It's show choir, and people are too opinionated to expect them to change their minds, even with a valid argument"
Just stop, It's getting embarrasing... You're like Nancy Grace, You know you're wrong, but you just won't quit... Saying the same thing over and over, with no basis for your opinion, other than that you've been trolling on here non stop since like 2004.
Were you at Teays Valley this year? Oh yeah... that's right... so YOU get out of this discussion, because you obviously have no idea what you're talking about and it's blatantly obvious to everyone that no one likes you.
No, this is completely rude, and for someone who hasn't been to Indiana in god knows how long, to come into a conversation about whether or not an Indy choir deserved to win, and call another STATE's choreography EASY, based on his less than limited knowledge of performance art under the age of 20, is completely freaking ridiculous.
I'm not done....
Who, Jay... Would you say has more difficult choreography than Carmel this year? Burroughs, Burbank, Clinton maybe? That's about it as far as that argument is concerned... And if you can't see it then you need to stick to show choir, and never try to grasp higher forms of performance art.
Considering their new videos that were just posted tonight, (since that's all you ever base your UNPARALLELED knowledge of Indiana show choir on)It's not hard to tell Carmel clearly out sings and out performs every choir in Iowa, Which is your entire frame of reference... Who's top over there CRK? bring it on... we all know who'd win...
When was the last time a choir from Iowa took a choreo caption In Indy? You like to bring up CRJ coming to Indiana and placing 2nd against 1 out of the top 5 in Indiana that year, but who took the visual caption and the GC? lol. I guess it was because they had really easy choreo, and it looked cleaner... hahahaha.
Choreography is easier here, yet Indiana choirs (only one being in the top 3) walked into Ohio and took the top 3 spots at a contest that has 14 pages worth of discussion, without blinking an eye, in a state that values choreo more than Indiana... WOW! I guess the judges must have never seen choreography before...
Especially considering this OHIO score sheet doesn't favor vocals as much as ISSMA's does, you'd think our choirs would get some respect, but no... It's still easy choreo compared to armography and cheesy footwork that only covers the vocals and makes it less realistic an art form, and causes the kids to look corny while attempting a style that the VERY FEW can pull off...
(I'd really like you to watch the new vids of Carmel and even TRY to tell me that any choir in Ohio, Iowa, OR Minnesota compares to that... who, Totino Grace? no... Fairfield? CRK? no... )
Get a grip,
When was the last time you watched a competition in Indiana? Oh yeah... that's right... so get the eff out of this discussion, because you have no idea what you're talking about and it's blatantly obvious to everyone who didn't study dance at the university of CRW....
"Visually Difficult?" You don't even know how to define that, You're pulling terms out of your A** because you clearly have NO IDEA what difficulty is having apparently never studied or appreciated tap, jazz, or ballroom. It's pathetic that you're being so stubborn just because you don't want to look like the idiot that you truly have been for the past 6 years, while continually pretending it was I didn't know what I was talking about... lol.
Notice none of the choreographers on the site are on here discussing this? Yet I've seen all of them look... You think any of them want to back me up and call another's work less difficult? No... but, I certainly haven't gotten any messages other than "you're completely right, but just let it go, It's show choir, and people are too opinionated to expect them to change their minds, even with a valid argument"
Just stop, It's getting embarrasing... You're like Nancy Grace, You know you're wrong, but you just won't quit... Saying the same thing over and over, with no basis for your opinion, other than that you've been trolling on here non stop since like 2004.
Burroughs, Burbank, Clinton - all of these, and for sure Wheaton and Fairfeild. Those would be the huge ones everyone would most likely know. And you realize you're the one who keeps majorly going with this?
And if you seriously think like Fairfeild, Ours, Twinsburgs, and a lot of other show choirs have armography you are sadly mistaken. And don't talk about thumbs downs when you have them on most of your posts
A lot of this is you being a major hippocrite (sp?) and he said everything in a calm manner as far as I can tell so calm down lol
Oh, and saying, "this is why I think choreo is easier in Indiana, but that's not really my opinion, so don't say anything negative to me", is not going to fly... Everyone knew what you were saying, regardless of your silly disclaimer.
No, this is completely rude, and for someone who hasn't been to Indiana in god knows how long, to come into a conversation about whether or not an Indy choir deserved to win, and call another STATE's choreography EASY, based on his less than limited knowledge of performance art under the age of 20, is completely freaking ridiculous.
I'm not done....
Who, Jay... Would you say has more difficult choreography than Carmel this year? Burroughs, Burbank, Clinton maybe? That's about it as far as that argument is concerned... And if you can't see it then you need to stick to show choir, and never try to grasp higher forms of performance art.
Considering their new videos that were just posted tonight, (since that's all you ever base your UNPARALLELED knowledge of Indiana show choir on)It's not hard to tell Carmel clearly out sings and out performs every choir in Iowa, Which is your entire frame of reference... Who's top over there CRK? bring it on... we all know who'd win...
When was the last time a choir from Iowa took a choreo caption In Indy? You like to bring up CRJ coming to Indiana and placing 2nd against 1 out of the top 5 in Indiana that year, but who took the visual caption and the GC? lol. I guess it was because they had really easy choreo, and it looked cleaner... hahahaha.
Choreography is easier here, yet Indiana choirs (only one being in the top 3) walked into Ohio and took the top 3 spots at a contest that has 14 pages worth of discussion, without blinking an eye, in a state that values choreo more than Indiana... WOW! I guess the judges must have never seen choreography before...
Especially considering this OHIO score sheet doesn't favor vocals as much as ISSMA's does, you'd think our choirs would get some respect, but no... It's still easy choreo compared to armography and cheesy footwork that only covers the vocals and makes it less realistic an art form, and causes the kids to look corny while attempting a style that the VERY FEW can pull off...
(I'd really like you to watch the new vids of Carmel and even TRY to tell me that any choir in Ohio, Iowa, OR Minnesota compares to that... who, Totino Grace? no... Fairfield? CRK? no... )
Get a grip,
When was the last time you watched a competition in Indiana? Oh yeah... that's right... so get the eff out of this discussion, because you have no idea what you're talking about and it's blatantly obvious to everyone who didn't study dance at the university of CRW....
"Visually Difficult?" You don't even know how to define that, You're pulling terms out of your A** because you clearly have NO IDEA what difficulty is having apparently never studied or appreciated tap, jazz, or ballroom. It's pathetic that you're being so stubborn just because you don't want to look like the idiot that you truly have been for the past 6 years, while continually pretending it was I didn't know what I was talking about... lol.
Notice none of the choreographers on the site are on here discussing this? Yet I've seen all of them look... You think any of them want to back me up and call another's work less difficult? No... but, I certainly haven't gotten any messages other than "you're completely right, but just let it go, It's show choir, and people are too opinionated to expect them to change their minds, even with a valid argument"
Just stop, It's getting embarrasing... You're like Nancy Grace, You know you're wrong, but you just won't quit... Saying the same thing over and over, with no basis for your opinion, other than that you've been trolling on here non stop since like 2004.
Teays Valley Classic 2011
