Most of the show choir world would definitely consider Waubonsie a power house... maybe not WWS yet, but ask anyone around and I guarantee they say Waubonsie is a power house.
Two consecutive FAME National Championships automatically makes Wheaton Warrenville South a power house.
If I could just put my two cents in for this discussion I think we all understand where everyone is coming from on the whole "power house" choir thing. All of these arguments being rightful in opinion I think we could for the most part agree that these choirs are on about the same level overall.
If we took JB, Burbank, Los Al, Clinton, Waubonsie, Wheaton, Waukee, and a few groups having "up" years (think Franklin Central or Zionsville this year or Twinsburg last year) and had them compete a few times we wouldn't get the same results.
So say we take the top 8-10 groups each year and send them to SOCAL, then Homewood, then Kennedy, Fairfield, Glenwood, then Hastings, I would say that I have a solid degree of certainty that you would get 6 completely different results each time.
Some of that would be based on the weighting of score sheets in California there is a "technical" aspect of the sheet that includes props and such, (which is right considering most choirs out there use them to their benefit) Where as at a competition like Kennedy, the score sheet might be weighted almost completely on Vocals and Choreo.
The second aspect contributing to this would obviously be judge selection, I can almost guarantee that Heath Webber and Lance Bass do not have the same standards for judging. That doesn't make either of them wrong, it's just how a single person values a performance.
Overall I don't think it's fair to try and say that groups of these caliber are better or worse than each other, nor to try and say one group is a "power house" and another is not.
This is why statistics aren't incredibly useful (and why the "rankings" sites don't work). Depth of competitions, how many times you compete, and where you travel also play a big part in the equation... and at the end of the day, it's still all subjective anyway.
I do think that if you polled the invested show choir community, the majority of people would actually put those five groups as the country's best (in whatever order you prefer). But I don't think it's that much of a stretch to say that Clinton, Burroughs, and Burbank have been the biggest three for awhile now. I think a lot of it has to do with shaping the direction of modern show choir as it does with having "the most grand championships in a row."
I love how you said this because at Show Choir Live tonight, Dave Fehr said the exact same thing.
According to this website here are the statistics for Burbank, Burroughs, WWS, Clinton, and WV from 2007-2014. These are the years that all of them competed.
While WV and WWS haven't been competing for as long as the other choirs, it's more than "two years", and these records prove consistency. So many dislikes on my previous status and your comments prove my point, you don't think the midwest choirs are worthy of being considered power houses (no pun intended). I believe the statistics prove otherwise. Simply stating that because a show choir hasn't been competing as long as another so therefore they aren't "legendary" (your words not mine), and to imply that in 5 years, there are only a handful of choirs that will be incredible is ridiculous. It's impossible to predict what will happen next year with any of these groups...
First off, I never intended to imply that the midwest was lesser or unable to produce a legendary group. What I intended to do was explain why people count these three groups as the "big three"... I did not deny that WV and WWS are INCREDIBLE groups! I'm a HUGE fan of both of them... They are incredible and all 5 of the groups listed would give each other a run for their money.
I did say that in 5 years that these three groups would still be amazing... That was intentional. 5 years would clear out all current members, but these choirs have a tradition of excellence that is almost undeniable. Now then that is not to say that in 5 years no other group would be able to beat them... Of course their would be! My argument was that these groups would be great.
With all this said, the midwest is possibly the deepest area of competition. With a ton of great groups! I didn't mean to think I was talking down on that area or the groups. I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue that the midwest or any of its groups is sub-par....
Wasted opportunity with all the professionals in the back yard. (Did the associate music director for one of the most popular television shows on right now score score shows, or just pick a cappella and soloists?)
Clinton, Burbank and Burroughs consistently take the medium to a new level, they deserve a fresh perspective and tougher scrutiny.
While this thread is still alive, I'm going to throw in my support for these unpopular posts about judge selection.
While maybe the associate director for Glee wouldn't be the right person to give a scoring sheet, there are certainly professionals in LA who know ensemble music and/or ensemble dancing & choreography. As was said, this is the entertainment capital of the world!
With a fresh perspective from new (yet credible) judges, it would make the outcome less predictable and all the more exciting.
According to this website here are the statistics for Burbank, Burroughs, WWS, Clinton, and WV from 2007-2014. These are the years that all of them competed.
While WV and WWS haven't been competing for as long as the other choirs, it's more than "two years", and these records prove consistency. So many dislikes on my previous status and your comments prove my point, you don't think the midwest choirs are worthy of being considered power houses (no pun intended). I believe the statistics prove otherwise. Simply stating that because a show choir hasn't been competing as long as another so therefore they aren't "legendary" (your words not mine), and to imply that in 5 years, there are only a handful of choirs that will be incredible is ridiculous. It's impossible to predict what will happen next year with any of these groups...
This is why statistics aren't incredibly useful (and why the "rankings" sites don't work). Depth of competitions, how many times you compete, and where you travel also play a big part in the equation... and at the end of the day, it's still all subjective anyway.
I do give Clinton a lot of credit for being willing to go out of their home area to compete (as the California schools also often do), but they've been beaten three times in the last six years when doing so. Their record is a lot better in the South where the majority of their competitions are (and where they are largely dominant). Burbank and Burroughs compete against each other almost every weekend, so one of them is always guaranteed to get no better than second place. I'm not dismissing the record of the other two choirs you listed, but it's not exactly equal ground. If Wheaton and Waubonsie competed against each other every week, one (or both) of them wouldn't have nearly as impressive a record either. This, of course, wouldn't mean that they're any less fantastic choirs - but it shows that you can't just go by blue ribbons alone.
I do think that if you polled the invested show choir community, the majority of people would actually put those five groups as the country's best (in whatever order you prefer). But I don't think it's that much of a stretch to say that Clinton, Burroughs, and Burbank have been the biggest three for awhile now. I think a lot of it has to do with shaping the direction of modern show choir as it does with having "the most grand championships in a row."
Most of the show choir world would definitely consider Waubonsie a power house... maybe not WWS yet, but ask anyone around and I guarantee they say Waubonsie is a power house.
I've decided to never give a dislike without an explanation. Here is my explanation: I think its hard to argue the very many groups have been as good as these three choirs as long and consistently. I would agree that Waubonsie and Wheaton are incredible choirs who would hold their own if not win at this competition, but neither of them have been good as long as clinton I do not think... Like we are talking maybe 4 or 5 competitions where Clinton didn't win since the groups inception. And the california groups have been just as consistent. Also, these three groups consistently go out of their circuit to try to prove dominance. Obviously they don't always win like last year, but they are consistently out there. Wheaton does this and has started to earn their way onto the list.
What I am trying to say is that Rome wasn't built in a day. Two years does not make a choir legendary for a long time. Basically if I came back in 5 years I know that Clinton, Burbank and Burroughs would still be incredible. The other choirs just haven't been as dominant as long...
According to this website here are the statistics for Burbank, Burroughs, WWS, Clinton, and WV from 2007-2014. These are the years that all of them competed.
While WV and WWS haven't been competing for as long as the other choirs, it's more than "two years", and these records prove consistency. So many dislikes on my previous status and your comments prove my point, you don't think the midwest choirs are worthy of being considered power houses (no pun intended). I believe the statistics prove otherwise. Simply stating that because a show choir hasn't been competing as long as another so therefore they aren't "legendary" (your words not mine), and to imply that in 5 years, there are only a handful of choirs that will be incredible is ridiculous. It's impossible to predict what will happen next year with any of these groups...
For anyone who cares, here's the Xtravaganza 2014 Video. Most years the kids at Los Al create a video for fun about the attending choirs and play it before awards. Sometimes Hart does too for their competition, but I'm unaware if they did this year. You can check out those previous versions by simply searching YouTube.
Perhaps unsurprisingly the theme for the Los Al video this year was The Hunger Games. I think it's decently funny - I got a couple laughs out of it. The only thing that would make their videos better would be…better research. Their portrayal of Clinton this year and Homewood and Twinsburg last year were pretty terrible. It's basically the Burbank/Burroughs show with some random crazy Brea thrown in there… not to say that's a bad thing, like I said I thought it was pretty entertaining.
While they are excellent show choirs, Waubonsie Valley has bested both Clinton and Burbank in the last 2 years. Wheaton also bested Burbank last year. But I guess midwest choirs don't count in "the show choir world''
I've decided to never give a dislike without an explanation. Here is my explanation: I think its hard to argue the very many groups have been as good as these three choirs as long and consistently. I would agree that Waubonsie and Wheaton are incredible choirs who would hold their own if not win at this competition, but neither of them have been good as long as clinton I do not think... Like we are talking maybe 4 or 5 competitions where Clinton didn't win since the groups inception. And the california groups have been just as consistent. Also, these three groups consistently go out of their circuit to try to prove dominance. Obviously they don't always win like last year, but they are consistently out there. Wheaton does this and has started to earn their way onto the list.
What I am trying to say is that Rome wasn't built in a day. Two years does not make a choir legendary for a long time. Basically if I came back in 5 years I know that Clinton, Burbank and Burroughs would still be incredible. The other choirs just haven't been as dominant as long...
Regardless of the outcome, you're still looking at the big three in the show choir world.
While they are excellent show choirs, Waubonsie Valley has bested both Clinton and Burbank in the last 2 years. Wheaton also bested Burbank last year. But I guess midwest choirs don't count in "the show choir world''
Well, Mr. Fehr and his wife do tailor and design all of the costumes for Clinton every year, along with making trips to New York to decide upon the fabrics. So I wouldn't be too shocked at them winning best costumes....
I think Clinton had some cool costumes, namely their the Victorian steampunk outfits for their closer. Some I thought were a bit plain though and with their story they could have done a bit more. (Not necessarily overly theatrical but similar to their 2012 costumes.)
But it is all subject and I wasn't judging or there to see.
(Going off previous performances I'd personally have also given best a capella to Burroughs. Best male soloist goes to Brett Carroll.)
I understand that competition is held within a high regard in the show choir world, but I am personally very excited that each of these groups keep going out and giving it their all on the stage year in and year out. I guess I tend to look at it from a different perspective after no longer performing and seeing what the director stand point is and what they do to make the kids not only great competitors, but great sportsmen and women who "get" that show choir is now about a community. The trophies are fun and tend to get bigger and bigger every year, but it is also teaching you to be apart of a family and how to come together to achieve the absolute best show that you can put on. Sometimes, you just have to sit back and enjoy what you are watching in the moment. These types of competitions are what make show choir so great. Professionalism and musicianship is at a such a high level that it truly is a pleasure to watch! Keep on keepin on Just my two cents!
I sat behind and met some of your kids- they were all so kind and they genuinely love watching each group. Kudos to them!
Haha! I told them to be on their best behavior since they were sitting amongst show choir celebrities!
I loved the show choir games Show Choir Live episode. I may have to give some ideas to the choir I heard may be doing Titanic next year. Haha!
We do have DVDs for every competition out here, and Blu-rays when I shoot them. The company that did Los Al this year was V&S; you can reach them at vandsvideo.com. If you're specifically looking for this competition obviously that's your only choice, but I will be doing the Burroughs and SoCal events in full HD with multiple cameras, so if you're looking for Burroughs, Burbank, and Los Al in the highest quality, there are some more options to come.
Oh, I was under the impression that V&S had stopped doing them. I heard that somewhere as I recall, but looks like that wasn't exactly true. Okay, I appreciate the quick answer man.
I know you guys don't typically do DVDs or Blu-ray for competitions out there, but I figured I'd ask anyway. That said, did anyone do any kind of media for this competition?
We do have DVDs for every competition out here, and Blu-rays when I shoot them. The company that did Los Al this year was V&S; you can reach them at vandsvideo.com. If you're specifically looking for this competition obviously that's your only choice, but I will be doing the Burroughs and SoCal events in full HD with multiple cameras, so if you're looking for Burroughs, Burbank, and Los Al in the highest quality, there are some more options to come.
I know you guys don't typically do DVDs or Blu-ray for competitions out there, but I figured I'd ask anyway. That said, did anyone do any kind of media for this competition?
Wasted opportunity with all the professionals in the back yard. (Did the associate music director for one of the most popular television shows on right now score score shows, or just pick a cappella and soloists?)
Only A cappella and soloists. He knows plenty about musicality and whatnot but from what I saw while working with him Saturday night, I'm pretty sure this was his first show choir experience.. he wouldnt really have been qualified let alone ABLE to judge... And I have a feeling that would be the case bringing anyone from the "outside" world in to judge.. they dont even know what to look for when it comes to scoring
My kids had a great time and loved not only seeing the four performing groups in AAA, but the quick cameo from Skylar Astin. Our Los Al hosts were spectacular and made everything so easy. the competitive nature of the choirs and the opinions of those watching can really get people riled up, but it was so rephreshing to see so many people celebrating the work of so many others.
I sat behind and met some of your kids- they were all so kind and they genuinely love watching each group. Kudos to them!
I know the entire Eisenhower Middle School show choir "Five Star" (New Mexico) is in attendance for Tier I tonight; gonna be a late night for them! Bet they're having a blast, though.
My kids had a great time and loved not only seeing the four performing groups in AAA, but the quick cameo from Skylar Astin. Our Los Al hosts were spectacular and made everything so easy. the competitive nature of the choirs and the opinions of those watching can really get people riled up, but it was so rephreshing to see so many people celebrating the work of so many others.
Los Alamitos Xtravaganza (Day Three) 2014
Their portrayal of Clinton this year and Homewood and Twinsburg last year were pretty terrible. It's basically the Burbank/Burroughs show with some random crazy Brea thrown in there… not to say that's a bad thing, like I said I thought it was pretty entertaining. 
Just my two cents!
