Well I hope everything goes well with show
I really hope it's a drama free event and good sportsmanship with all the choirs
But I'll be there watching and looking forward to being entertained, and also
Learning something! Rock it Out Choirs!!!
There would be no need to have two different tiers if the the four mixed groups are being judged the same.
This is a good point. Many Ohio and West Virginia competitions also have A/B/C class divisions based on school size, which is totally arbitrary. All three divisions are judged the same and have an equal opportunity to make finals, I think there are simply multiple divisions for prelim awards and prelim placements against comparable schools. I get the point, but I don't think it's necessary.
If you're going to have multiple divisions, there needs to be a solid reason. Example: Fairfield Crystal Classic offers "Large" and "Small" mixed divisions and each division has their own separate finals. Another example is California which has varying divisions and only groups within those divisions compete against one another.
I don't necessarily have a problem with this competition having what appears to be a Large Mixed/A division and a Small Mixed/B division. I can see why there are those separate divisions, but I also agree with what you said. It's not really necessary, it's just something competitions do so more groups go home with awards. That's our millenial generation... everyone's a winner.
Don't go twisting words and make them to sound as though I prefer an WVA group over VA. My honest opinion is that Va has some fantastic groups! Kick -ss to be exact. I said that and maybe should have said they aren't to be taken lightly like many Va groups or show choirs in general.I love that you have an opinion and stand by it.
When it comes to band aspect i agree there. As far as the number of people to the sound, we have both heard large groups sound like crap and small groups sound thunderous. That's the work of the director and how they teach.
Agree to disagree...absolutely! May not agree on the finals situation, but do like that B groups are given the opportunity to receive awards.That's what makes this forum and sites like this so wonderful. To be able to rant or rave in a MATURE way. In my opinion you are pretty much right with way it works...
"I don't really know what else to tell you lol. If everyone was just grouped together, those B groups might never have a chance to get an award, programs hurt, and they never grow into becoming in A division group."
"Maybe there just needs to be a clarification of who's allowed into the B division and all will be settled? "
I don't think it works in a finals situation. Although again, we have both seen B groups overtake A groups in the finals. Too many different factors.
I wasn't talking about anyone in general. I don't like to pinpoint or point fingers. Sometimes you have to give an example. I've seen Poca via Youtube and they like Hanover, Cosby,Clover Hill, Matoaca, Menchville, and Thomas Dale (some of the best A and B groups I've seen from this part of Va.) they are no joke. An observation...simply an observation to back up why I agree with you on needing some sort of clarification.
I never mean any disrespect in my questions or posts, so please don't take anything on here personally...it's show choir and at the end of the day all groups have worked their butts off to the best and in some cases, past their known ability. Congratulations to all groups that were are to go onstage and put on their show!
Don't go twisting words and make them to sound as though I prefer an WVA group over VA. My honest opinion is that Va has some fantastic groups! Kick -ss to be exact. I said that and maybe should have said they aren't to be taken lightly like many Va groups or show choirs in general.I love that you have an opinion and stand by it.
When it comes to band aspect i agree there. As far as the number of people to the sound, we have both heard large groups sound like crap and small groups sound thunderous. That's the work of the director and how they teach.
Agree to disagree...absolutely! May not agree on the finals situation, but do like that B groups are given the opportunity to receive awards.That's what makes this forum and sites like this so wonderful. To be able to rant or rave in a MATURE way. In my opinion you are pretty much right with way it works...
"I don't really know what else to tell you lol. If everyone was just grouped together, those B groups might never have a chance to get an award, programs hurt, and they never grow into becoming in A division group."
"Maybe there just needs to be a clarification of who's allowed into the B division and all will be settled? "
I don't think it works in a finals situation. Although again, we have both seen B groups overtake A groups in the finals. Too many different factors.
I wasn't talking about anyone in general. I don't like to pinpoint or point fingers. Sometimes you have to give an example. I've seen Poca via Youtube and they like Hanover, Cosby,Clover Hill, Matoaca, Menchville, and Thomas Dale (some of the best A and B groups I've seen from this part of Va.) they are no joke. An observation...simply an observation to back up why I agree with you on needing some sort of clarification.
I never mean any disrespect in my questions or posts, so please don't take anything on here personally...it's show choir and at the end of the day all groups have worked their butts off to the best and in some cases, past their known ability. Congratulations to all groups that were are to go onstage and put on their show!
Then your talking about Poca? Poca is a small division group. I've seen them live a couple times. They are good yes, but I remember at Finale 2011 they competed in the small division and I had them placed 1st and they got 4thish? I also don't agree with you saying West VA groups are no joke. They are of every different level just like VA groups, VA now has groups better than all West VA groups. (please don't get mad at me WVa lol)
It is not unfair to judge a B group against an A group if it's being done in FINALS. Thats why there's daytime awards and then Final awards.
I don't really know what else to tell you lol. If everyone was just grouped together, those B groups might never have a chance to get an award, programs hurt, and they never grow into becoming in A division group. If a B group doesnt want to partake in Finals they can simply say so and give there spot up to the next group scorewise in line.
Maybe there just needs to be a clarification of who's allowed into the B division and all will be settled? lol I don't really agree with ya on A groups having it harder. Lets be real, more people can mean more sound (unless alot are weight having to be pulled), more people creates cooler pictures, and i think more people can hide blocking and choreo errors. The Bands are basically the same too, 42 kids should have it easier singing over them than 28.
I always say more the Merrier, but then I saw Norwell (?) at finale and was shocked how good they were being so small and only a few guys. Big kudos to them.
Anyways, I think the system looks great, you do not lol We agree to disagree.
I'm familiar with the happenings of last year at this competition and enjoyed the way it was ran. I'm more under the mindset that it is unfair to judge a B group against an A group. For the reasons you gave that there are the two tiers.
Yes, I've also seen B groups beat out A groups at this competition and if it's deserved than even more congratulations, I just don't see how given with a higher number of students in a group it's harder to maintain the best vocal quality, blend, intonation, diction vocally and sharpness and accuracy of choreography.
These groups coming from West Va are no joke and can't wait to see them! However, again the question is why are there two different tiers if mindset and score sheet wise, there are no differences.
Back in my day (when dinosaurs roamed the Earth) there weren't A and B groups, just single and mixed. I understood then that every group was under the same umbrella and a '"classification"didn't matter as it was plain to see girls or girls and boys lol!
As far as the groups that I'm noticing switching out, yes Matoaca is going B again this year, but was just an A group last weekend. Thusly, Harbor Lights was a B group last weekend and an A group for this competition. Size wise I always heard 28 or less B 28 or more A...both Harbor Lights and Matoaca have more than 28 according to their bios. So, if there is no reason to distinguish between the two groupings since they are all (maybe not the single gender) competing against one another... why have the two groupings? I could understand if there were two finalists from each tier. Lol, I may never understand even if explained.
ps Matoaca is an outstanding group and my questions by no means has anything to do with them.
So, the posts here say top five scores will advance to the finals, but now its top six including two single gender and four mixed...is that correct?
Secondly, how do the top scores get chosen? Will it be the top two from each tier (A and B), or the top four scores in mixed in general?
Lastly, if it's the top four mixed groups, how does being in A or B effect the judges scoring? There would be no need to have two different tiers if the the four mixed groups are being judged the same. YES, I know its the same score sheet, but the mind set is different. There are groups that where A in other competitions and are now B and vice versa, just an observation and question. Any clarification would be greatly appreciated.
I cant speak necessarily for CHill, but the B Division groups during the day time as well as the girl groups have beaten the A groups in Finals. They are not judged differently for the "mindset" at this comp, atleast they have not been in the past. Every competition is of course allowed to make their own justification on who is allowed to enter into teh B division, new group, group size, school enrollment, new teacher... If you're talking about Matoaca, I believe its do to their size. It has also always been the top scores overall move forward. Last year happened to be Girls A, Mixed A&B tie score, and then another Girls A who moved to finals. Not sure if they are having the girls groups compete against the mixed groups in finals now though with the specific girls group finalists...
So, the posts here say top five scores will advance to the finals, but now its top six including two single gender and four mixed...is that correct?
Secondly, how do the top scores get chosen? Will it be the top two from each tier (A and B), or the top four scores in mixed in general?
Lastly, if it's the top four mixed groups, how does being in A or B effect the judges scoring? There would be no need to have two different tiers if the the four mixed groups are being judged the same. YES, I know its the same score sheet, but the mind set is different. There are groups that where A in other competitions and are now B and vice versa, just an observation and question. Any clarification would be greatly appreciated.
I do not know the answer to that, our director only has the schedule up for Saturday for this competition. Sorry
We have consolidated the single gender and mixed choirs into one day to accommodate the Choirs with bands involved in the Band a assessment! I hope this clears things up. Please join us for a wonderful event.
Thanks for the awesome schedule, Brent! Quick question, Beth's initial post above said that single-gender competition would be Friday and mixed competition would be Saturday. So since your schedule for Saturday included single-gender groups, does that mean they consolidated the two-day competition into a Saturday competition? Or is there still a Friday event?
Schedule for Saturday
Clover Hill Acropolis (exhibition) 7:30 AM
Patrick Henry Essence (Girls B) 9:00 AM
Kecoughton Touch of Jade (Girls B) 9:30 AM
Mechanicsville (M)pulse (Mixed A) 10:50 AM
Poquoso Soundsations (Mixed B) 11:20 AM
Eastern View Innovation (Mixed A) 11:50 AM
Patrick Henry Soundsations (Mixed B) 12:20 PM
Powhatan Revv'd Up! (Girls B) 1:30 PM
Kecoughtan Harbor Lights (Mixed A) 2:00 PM
Matoaca Up Front (Girls B) 2:30 PM
Amherst Amherechos (Mixed A) 3:00 PM
Morgantown Images (Mixed A) 3:45 PM
Jefferson Pop Singers (Mixed B) 4:15 PM
Poco Visual Volume (Mixed B) 4:45 PM
Matoaca High Impact (Mixed B) 5:15 PM
Clover Hill Iridescence (exhibition) 5:45 PM Pre-Lim Awards 6:20 PM Dinner Break
Semantics. Silly semantics. Nothin' more, I'm sure. Bunch of good kids and parents sponsoring a competition where we can come together and perform for each other and have a blast doing so. I think we're ALL the Best!!!
I getcha Jeff and thank yall for getting the informatin up here.
The Best thing is an ongoing issue. By saying it's the best in the Mid-Atlantic though, you're undermining the other competitions such as Powhatan, Manchester, Hanover, Kecoughtan and Albemarle, which the other shools do take to heart unfortunately.
Personally, Clover hill does have the Best Venue because it's the newest, but by saying your the all around Best which means better than all of the others... it's just not classy and it's completely opinion and in my opinion innaccurate. Manchester has by far the biggest turnout year to year (though the winner is generally always the out of towner where in most cases should not be, another ongoing issue...) But hey, that is all also a judges opinion of who is "the Best".
Not sure who all is attending, just saw Poca is! But to all who are, best of luck. You're going to have a great time with a very friendly, killer choral dept. who is very accomidating.
By doing so it makes it look like your words, but even worse it's from theirs. Oy.
In my opinion, it doesn't look like her words at all. Most of the time when there are large informational posts like this about competitions, they are generally copy and pasted from websites, e-mails, etc. Sometimes contest directors post them as well, but I don't see any issue with Beth posting the information, regardless of her choir association, it's better to have information than to lack it.
I also don't dwell much on Clover Hill using the word "best" to describe their competition. I feel like most competitions advertise that they have the best venues, and best overall competitions, and all of that. It's really just a simple marketing scheme that doesn't really mean anything.
Clover Hill Mid-Atlantic Show Choir Spectacular (Day Two) 2013
