Don't get me wrong- we ALL know how "political" show choir has become throughout the country but this is beginning to get hand of hand.
You can say that again...
Points of clarification:
1. "(who has judged at your invitational)" It is not my invitational. I simply volunteer my time.
2. I was speaking about judge selection at local competitions. i.e. Powhatan and this past weekends event.
3. "are you saying that these individuals are not capable of making a fair decision because i was employed with the hosting school???????"
- No, you said it. Furthermore, Not that these individuals are not capable- because THEY ARE beyond capable and are among the most influential, respected and quality professionals in the industry and I have EXTREME respect for EACH and EVERY one of THEM. And again those were not the ones being referred to.
4. "and for you to say that where they placed Clover Hill is "too put it nicely deceiving" is not only an insult to the students who work both before and after school and in class 3 times a week, but also an Insult to those individuals who decided what "piece of plastic" that they took home. "
- again, not speaking of those judges. And I am well aware of schools competing at schools that share employees, I find them to have a more shining reputation than some. So this comment of yours seems to come from a place of insecurity and lack of understanding of what was being said- if that was unclear...hence my "points of clarification".
5. Not a "bashing spree." Simply expressing a personal opinion peppered with the TRUTH. I was not the first and I will not be the last. As mentioned it just takes the "courage" and knowledge to speak on matters that must be brought to attention to further progress our community of show choir participants.
6. "The problem is not the lack of qualifications I personally believe the problem is the countless individuals who sign on and vent so much about how things were wrong...when they don't even have a MUSIC EDUCATION DEGREE or any degree let alone have they ever been a director, or achieved extreme level of success with any program. Again just my opinion."
-There is so much wrong with this statement. First, It is contradictory. Second, its truly ironic. Third, "vent so much about how things were wrong" is melodramatic- I like to think of these comments as constructive criticism because they are based on facts and a firm knowledge base- not hearsay or gossip- facts. Its those who defend them so strongly and with so much hate that make it a problem. If its not the truth- it simply is not the truth. A simple study of psychology shows> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection . Furthermore, this passive aggressive attack further exemplifies the content of character, better yet- lack of the aforementioned... being "taught" to students.Additionally, success is measured in many different ways, plastic and bio builders are NOT taken by all as "extremelevels of success. "
7. "Now that I think about it....one of those "unqualified judges" as you put it was Susan Wood Kish- the one who taught you everything you know about show choir and single handily put Virginia on the map and challenged everyone out there to compete against the big boys...."
- There was no thinking in this, only assumption, and contradiction . Mrs. Kish did not teach me everything I know about show choir. Far from the truth<(Assumption) Though I do respect her and am appreciative of the opportunity she created for myself and countless others, that can and will never be denied. But to say that it was "single handed" is where the contradiction comes in. In your own words it is "an insult to the students who work both before and after school and in class 3 times a week".
In closing, 99% of past, present and future students have, do and will, work before, during, and after school to achieve a quality product that they can be proud of. And I DO feel they deserve all that and the world. It is just disheartening to see and hear some of the things I have seen and heard over the past 5 years from those who measure "extreme levels of success" in such materialistic ways. I will admittedly and regretfully say that I once believed in those people and put full faith in their interest and began to think it myself.
Thankfully, I have seen the light! ;)
There is so much more to this art form: confidence, pride, integrity and sadly those values and ideals are being discarded in the name of a "piece of plastic".
We are all "Grand Supremes" Honey Boo Boo Child!! haha
Congratulations to all those who continue to educate beyond "show choir" to higher education and professional theatre, beyond the competition aspect and continue to respect and appreciate their students enough to teach quality literature, history, pertinent life lessons and values such as respect, confidence, pride AND integrity by example.
The arts are for people who the rest of the world dont qualify as "normal" and for people who make this world a beautiful place to live in. The arts are a place for "outsiders" to be apart of a unit, find love, appreciation and respect for each other and evoke emotion and create beautiful masterpieces in the name of creativity and imagination. The arts allow for elevated, educated and open conversation and exposure of real human truths. There is no place for hatred and malice. That being said, I thank all those who came before- for the lessons you taught, all those who I have the pleasure of creating with now- for living the truth and to all those in the future for continuing to spread love and happiness through all genres of art. End.
Thanks for the kind words Ryan....I have much respect for you too! You are one of the few who KNOWS show choir and know whats up nationally (not many of those folks in VA show choir land)
I too noticed the score mistake and wow not sure how that can happen. (I assume you are speaking of Highlights and Up Front on the lttle final composite we got) I wish we had seen a composite that showed what each judge scored. We competed at Marysville in January and have done nationals before and thats how their composite is laid out.
I echo most of what you say (especially about Clover Hills event being well run and the judge from Iowa at Powhatan, he was righ on and very smart) Now at Powhatan we ran into a judge that was hmmmm.... not knowledgable about what he was judging....I am a lot nicer than you and cant find the courage to speak the way you do (at least on here LOL) You would say how you really feel but me not so much!
Sum it up by saying VA judges tend to be frustrating, sometimes good ones come in from out of state but in general they are displeasing.
That is sad about what you mention with Kristin, you are a great young choreographer that should be commended for the positive influence you are to the kids you work with. Its obvious how much you put into the show design and choreo teaching.....your groups are always phenominal!!!
Please excuse all the errors, on an iPad because my home is under construction and I'm totally a pc/blackberry user.
Oh and about the clover hill comp also, from the sound system to the food, to the amazing parents and lovable hosts, this competition minus the added finals judge whos score I thought wasn't even going to count (by getting rid of the highest and lower score, like many finals do and I guess didn't happen because I didn't read the directors packet correctly) was a superior competition. the facility is amazing, just everything... I had a great time until she walked in, and new dimensions, break legs next weekend!
matoaca, you guys were amazing. From February when I saw your show last til now... I can see the hard work you guys have out into your show. I caught myself singing "raise your voice" today with the construction workers looking at me like I'm crazy. Shout out to Brad and yalls band, killer, but brad, a mother told me you might retire the red dress, don't do, it's too pretty! Lol
great job on running a fun competition with amazing food chill, your rents know how to cook!
Took me awhile to figure out what you were talking bout (the arranger/choreo) thing, but at Powhatan, brother from Iowa was an amazing judge for Hanover in the fact that he scored exactly what he saw taking place, his tape was a delight to listen to... Not to mention he gave my ladies a 40 on choreo lol (aaaahh, now I'm bias lol) but really the flaws he picked out were exactly what I was thinking, that retired lady from Cleveland though... She be crazy. Though I didn't like Iri doing that repeat closer (which they did well) it was still good and i lets be real, he was wsd do it, that alone couldve hurt them ifnthey didnt do it just as well, so having him judge couldve been bad for them. My issue was the opener, rich aristocratic French Burroughs costumes singing oh fortuna. doesn't fit the lyrics at all. but they surely looked good. I would've given that comp to Cosby personally but hey, I won't no judge (please excuse my Ebonics, in that kind of mood)
Back to chills comp. I was speaking about Kristin Mancini. Kristin was my show choir choreographer in high school. She was also a capital swinger back in the day. Kristin was also set up to be my private dance instructor but for the first lesson she showed up an hour late.... There shows her professionalism. I'm stating these reasons publically now because apparently directors do not know and keep making the mistake of hiring her. I was brought on to co-choreograph with Kristin. I respected her work, but she did not respect mine. She degraded me to the students, who even look me in the face. She was fired for multiple reasons and when she was let go I even spoke up for her, by then i was very good at editing her choreo since I had been changing it since high school. she had her family members writing me on Facebook threatening me to watch my back... I immediately reported it to my director, I thought then nothing would ever be heard of her again. Then lee Davis hired her... I felt stabbed in the back, but I rarely see Jen anyways, so forgive and forget. Now Powhatan has because they lost ripley and it's just so sad there aren't more choreographers out there who love what they are doing and working with the teenagers and will do it for a low fee because the choral programs in VA are on such low budgets. I ran into time crunches thisnyear and couldn't help out everyone I wanted to, and now thisnhas happened.... She's being allowed to judge. I plan to be staying with both Hanover and James River Choral Depts for as long as they still want me, but I will beg and plead, though it won't be necessary, for them to have absolutely nothing to do with any program involving Kristin Mancini. she just overstepped her position and the children I love dearly just suffered. I don't do it for the money.
Not surprised....it has been a VERY "political" year at some central Virginia competitions.... a bit incestuous! (relations between choreographers and arrangers as judges, lack of experience in the industry, competing at associated choirs competitions almost exclusively)
This is why we must demand a higher quality of judge selection and take each "out of state" competition win with a grain of salt...Competing at competitions of schools which employ the same staff is a bit...hmmm... how to put it nicely....deceiving.
Maybe your unaware but schools compete at programs where they share staff are employed all the time, its extremely common across all states with all schools. Lets take for example Clover HIll ( whom I would imagine that most of your comments are towards, if not I stand corrected). They Competed out of state the past years at Solon, Medina, Ben Davis, & Finale......judges at those events included: Mike Crandall (who has judged at your invitational), JD Smith (who has also judged at your invitational), Tom Westfall (director of Piqua) David Fehr (Director of the unmatched Clinton Attache), Debbie Andis (former director of Anderson Highland), Jeremy Alfera (director of Marysville), Randy Sage, Jason Johnson, David Legg, Jeff Clark (director of Fairfield), Paul Gulsvig....just a few.....are you saying that these individuals are not capable of making a fair decision because i was employed with the hosting school???????
Those individuals I stated above have done more for show choir than you or I...and for you to say that where they placed Clover Hill is "too put it nicely deceiving" is not only an insult to the students who work both before and after school and in class 3 times a week, but also an Insult to those individuals who decided what "piece of plastic" that they took home.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion about "certain programs" but before you go on a bashing spree discounting results just because you are not a fan realize you are also questioning the qualifications and morale of those judges.
The problem is not the lack of qualifications I personally believe the problem is the countless individuals who sign on and vent so much about how things were wrong...when they don't even have a MUSIC EDUCATION DEGREE or any degree let alone have they ever been a director, or achieved extreme level of success with any program. Again just my opinion.
Congrats to Hanover you always have a fantastic program also to you Ryan Finley and Jamie...you guys do great things out there. Also congrats to Matoaca students, parents, Brad, and Alex Hall...Enjoy your moment the judges enjoyed your show. Now that I think about it....one of those "unqualified judges" as you put it was Susan Wood Kish- the one who taught you everything you know about show choir and single handily put Virginia on the map and challenged everyone out there to compete against the big boys....
Don't get me wrong- we ALL know how "political" show choir has become throughout the country but this is beginning to get hand of hand. To be quite honest- a bit embarrassing. Virginia is far enough (geographically) from mainstream show choir as it is, and situations and groups who further distance all of us from experiencing these choirs when they choose to travel/compete, is robbing us all of progressive movement in the art form and quite frankly- exposure to educational AND quality programs. Unfortunately the only reputable events in the area take place during the peak season of midwest competition or typically fall on national competition dates/band competitions and therefore do not work, logistically, for groups to attend.
It would be nice to have events that these groups could attend so that local groups who are unable to travel can experience their AWESOMENESS! (yes i said it)
Best Vocals - Tie Highlights and Sound fx
Best Choreo - Sound FX
Best Show - Highlights
Best Band - High Impact
Let's just say the 4th judge added was fired from Hanover, is bitter, has had her family send me death threats, she decided the final results. Highlights scored top in day round with sound fx and high impact tieing for 2nd. Let's just say awards were announced incorrectly, these above are from the composites.
Sorry Ryan!
Not surprised....it has been a VERY "political" year at some central Virginia competitions.... a bit incestuous! (relations between choreographers and arrangers as judges, lack of experience in the industry, competing at associated choirs competitions almost exclusively)
This is why we must demand a higher quality of judge selection and take each "out of state" competition win with a grain of salt...Competing at competitions of schools which employ the same staff is a bit...hmmm... how to put it nicely....deceiving. Especially given the "track" record of said "professionals" over the past couple of years and how money was exchanged. We should ALL know what im talking about, if not....google it.
This is not meant to take ANYTHING from the young adults who work SO very hard- You should be very proud of yourselves and of the product you produce! AND CONGRATULATIONS to Matoaca for an ever improving and outstanding year!! Your shows are exciting and well done. This involves you beyond this year.
This is more towards the "educators" who use their students to gain validation in the name of "piece of plastic that cost a few bucks down the street"< love that quote! versus providing educational, real-life experiences.
There is a reason this competition has gained no local participation and it only takes a little "digging" to find out why.
Let us call a spade a spade.
*My opinions are mine alone and do not reflect upon any choir or director I am associated with.
Best Vocals - Tie Highlights and Sound fx
Best Choreo - Sound FX
Best Show - Highlights
Best Band - High Impact
Let's just say the 4th judge added was fired from Hanover, is bitter, has had her family send me death threats, she decided the final results. Highlights scored top in day round with sound fx and high impact tieing for 2nd. Let's just say awards were announced incorrectly, these above are from the composites.
GC Matoaca High Impact (best band)
1st runner up Hanover Sound Fx (best choreo)
2nd runner up Matoaca Up Front
3rd runner up Hanover Highlights(best vocals)
it was a great competition and was glad to just to compete again Hanover in the finals
respect goes out to all the finalst it literal came down to a single point for certain places in finals
Added. Event information should be added this week, if all goes well. Still waiting on those three things requested before. It'll expedite our system, and give recognition the respective choir's page.
Lol, which I heard alot of parents last year say they did... Hey Ri, the correct address is
Clover Hill High School
13301 Kelly Green Lane
Midlothian, VA 23112
Don't know if anyone noticed, but the address for the venue is still at the OLD school- I dont know how to fix that, but for people looking to go watch, it may be misleading... :/
Clover Hill Mid-Atlantic Show Choir Spectacular 2012
