When the composite score sheet came out, Menchville had the higher score. It was an inadvertent mistake. We had a trophy presented to us at River City.
Is it possible to make a correction to the caption awards for this competition? It was incorrectly announced at the competition, but after the release of the composite scores, Menchville won best choreo in Mixed B.
Sooo sorry, I tried editing that but it wouldn't allow me to. Yea, I meant no harm, I just think a lot of people don't understand how results turn out, I'm just too lazy to have typed the individual breakdown scores of vocals/choreo/show to show how exactly the competition is even scored.
I'm a big fan of finals, I think the River City Invitational was the most accurate, fair competition two years ago, sad there's no finals, so I'm hoping it won't effect the accuracy.
I also get the whole price of the judging. Nothing was done wrong at Powhatan. Everything (other than those two errors that are getting fixed, and I'm still not 100% positive score sheets didn't get mixed up).
If you hear* any complaints at all let me know and ill take them down, I've spoken to a few directors and they agree they should be public info, just like everything judged should be.
Much love to you all! =-.)
*grammatical edits so the SCC kidsdon't score haakon points if they drift to the east coast forums lol
Dane - I didn't mean to accuse you of bashing, I just thought I'd share my opinion on the Finals format at the moment. Personally, I enjoyed doing the Finals situation two years ago at RCI, but I also understand why it hasn't come back.
Don't know who you are referring to by Chris, but for the record my name is Sean, Ryan.
I agree it's good to see what the judges are thinking, and in retrospect, my feeling that it is bad taste to share these results in a "public" forum such as showchoir.com stems from my opinion that the composite scores are for the directors to have and discuss privately if they wish. As a theatre festival adjudicator, I can attest to the truth that the Virginia High School League does mandate that composite sheets be assembled and given to each participating group. It is invaluable to be able to evaluate by comparison to your competitors, in sports, education, and contests, I definitely agree with that notion. It's just that, historically, these composites have been kept to the directors and their immediate advisors, not posted in the monster that the internet can be for anyone to pick at it. That can be scary for a festival manager to consider, and could prevent composite scores from being released ever again to avoid the hassle.
The bad taste and feeling of "bashing" is from the implication that there was a mistake made in the judging, from the widely ranging scores. There were in fact two mistakes - Menchville should have gotten Best Choreography, and Atlee Serenade should have placed in the B division. Other than those two clerical errors (which are being fixed), though, the opinions of the 3 judges are clear. The more I think about it, it's not the posting of scores that is the problem, just the implied accusation that the judges didn't know what they were doing.
It is certainly possible for one out of three people to have a different opinion of the quality of a groups performance. Even more possible for that opinion to be significantly different in either the negative or positive direction. Certainly there are different ways to rate on a score sheet, and here is where I feel you have traction.
In VHSL Festival rules, which are freely available to read, judges are asked to not give below a certain margin of score, in order to prevent hurt feelings from an excessively low score. No such organization exists for show choir, and as such, each competition is left to it's own interpretation of how to ask it's judges to score. Without a generalized standard and ratings system that applies to all competitions, it's just impossible to expect the judges to all score in similar fashion.
That's another reason, dane, why I like the RCI two years ago - throwing out the top and bottom judges score was a way of leveling the scoring that was very effective, but again, not very wallet-friendly.
That said, I agree with you, Ryan, that it's okay to look at these scores objectively. And I apologize, after carefully considering the intent of your comments in your postings, I do realize you may not be intentionally bashing anyone. It was very clearly displayed the names of the judges on each groups score sheet, and with a little Googling, you should be able to find information on any of the judges so you can find information yourself. Since the Show Choir Classic doesn't have a program, no biographic information was collected, so I can't really help you there!
hey Sean*, how's it bad taste? They do it in the olympics, the do it in all sports, they do it at theatre festivals, dance competitions, and most show choir competitions around the country. Its good to know what the judges were thinking. And bashing? I didn't see any bashing going on, but I would like to know what his past experience with show choir is...
I apologize I wasn't bashing powhatan's competition by any means. and plus finals could be permissable if the competition just started earlier. its not that virgina can't do it, the critical mass just doesn't want to. which is understandble
Another strategy of leveling scores is to have more judges, and throw out the highest and lowest score. But you also then have to pay two more judges to be there, which gets expensive fast.
At least with our format in Virginia, we can get through all of the groups in one day, and go home. Can you imagine doing 34 choirs in a preliminary, then having another set of performances late into the night? It'd be unbearable! And the attitude in Virginia does not currently support multi-day events for the same group. Buses are expensive! Its already a begrudging acceptance that single and mixed gender groups go on different days. Look at River City; with the way VA show choir works, where most everyone visits 2-5 local competitions (and hardly anywhere else out of state), finals just doesn't work.
On a side note, I personally believe posting the full composite scores and then attacking a judges opinion is in bad taste.
wow. thats insane. i wonder what happened.
maybe the judge just legitimately didn't like their show at all. if there were finals in virginia they coulda gone over the scores and fixed what the judge didnt like ;)
THUMBS UP IF YOU SUPPORT THE WE WANT FINALS IN VIRGINIA MOVEMENT
Too shocked by the composite scores that just came out to even comment on the performances. Heres Friday, not too crazy, looks like Judge #2 was judging on a much broader scale...
Friday's performances were amazing all over the board! Absolutely loved what Cosby did with their ballad, so west coast. Clover Hill was SPECTACULAR, they got me dancing during PYT haha. Really liked Manchester's theme, so creative! And everyone was so nice and supportive. I look forward to Next Weekend at Manchester
Friday night was one of the best competitions I have been to, experience and performance wise. There were so many amazing groups and so much positive sportsmanship between choirs. I absolutely LOVED Thomas Dale's ballad. Clover Hill was phenomenal and I have had PYT stuck in my head since Friday Overall amazing performances from every group. Can't wait until CVSCI next weekend!
James River/Powhatan Show Choir Classic (Day One) 2011
