Regarding some of the above comments, i think if this is going to become a rule for preps, i think it should be across the board, as well as for Single-Gender groups! A group of guys or girls with crossovers could easily beat out many mixed prep groups without crossovers!
All-male groups are totally different than all-female groups in that the number of girls who try out for show choir is typically far greater than the number of guys who do. I don't know of any schools that have an all-male show choir where every member in that group is not involved in any other choir at the school. The situation for all-girl groups is obviously much different, as there are plenty of all-girls show choirs with members who are not also in the school's advanced mixed group. Because of this, it is not fair to stack an all-female group with more advanced members in competition. Two completely different scenarios.
Also, single-gender groups shouldn't ever be competing against mixed groups, so your last sentence confuses me.
Is a junior varsity group really a junior varsity group when they have varsity members in the group? I think that is really the question that needs to be decided... How many members are in both groups?
Waconia Prep-"The Current" has 5 guys that made power company as performers who also decided to do the current as performers. It looks like a few other groups were moved to Class AA as well!
Hastings certainly has every right to enforce whatever rules they want, I think it would have been nice for the groups to have be notified at the beginning of the year/season if it was a rule, unless it was a brand new rule they added last minute for sake of so many groups having crossovers?
Regarding some of the above comments, i think if this is going to become a rule for preps, i think it should be across the board, as well as for Single-Gender groups! A group of guys or girls with crossovers could easily beat out many mixed prep groups without crossovers!
Hopefully all programs get to a place where they have so much interest and talent that they do not need to use any crossovers!!!
Good luck to ALL the groups at hastings, this is going to be an AWESOME competition, and we all know its one of the best places to perform in the midwest!!! Its an Awesome line-up and no doubt about it everyone is going to see some awesome groups in Class A and Class AA! BEST OF LUCK!
I really like this dialogue going on. Great conversation! (Wow, maybe I am a teacher?)
I feel that, with regards to the crew and band, many schools (at least that I've seen) with two or more groups have essentially the same band for each group and the same base crew. The purpose of having a prep group is to prepare for the next step, and having a singer-dancer pursue preparation for the next step while already there is foreign to me.
That said, there are many a prep group who have and will continue to decimate and destroy the competition regardless of their class. Along the same train of thought (this might be a few switches away) should outstanding prep groups get a tainted reputation for being too good? Should they be required to step up in class to compete against similarly talented groups?
Also, do kids who are in crew for either group count as "participants in both groups"? What about band members?
Also, isn't it possible for a director to cut kids from the varsity group during auditions to put them in the junior varsity group in order to "stack" the chances better there? I'm not saying that I know of any choir that has ever done this, and I'm not pointing fingers at anyone. It's just another way of looking at things.
Is a junior varsity group really a junior varsity group when they have varsity members in the group? I think that is really the question that needs to be decided... How many members are in both groups?
It's only a few members who are in both groups. You can see my above post about who's in both groups.
Regarding your question about "is a jv group really a jv group when they have varsity members in the group?"
My answer is yes. And that's because the kids who are in both groups aren't in both groups because they want to try and "stack" their JV group with good kids. Like Margaux, Cece, and I have all stated, they're doing it because of their undying love and passion for show choir. It would be different story if a director drafted members of the Varsity group into the Junior Varsity group for the sole purpose of helping the Junior Varsity group's chances at a competition.
For members of both Power Company and the Current (and other schools who also have that option), they really make an extra huge commitment to the program! Even when Cece and I did crew for the Current, it was a big commitment but SO much fun! The overlapping of kids is because so many of us love show choir so much, we want to take advantage of the opportunity for more performing and fun! And like Dylan said, so many kids use this as an opportunity to gain more experience and become better performers. I personally really enjoyed the opportunity to be a part of both groups and I am SO glad we had that option.
Whatever rules each competition decides to put in place is completely up to them, and the rule change is definitely understandable. I think this will give those JV groups who moved up to AA an awesome opportunity and extra motivation to do their best!
This competition is STACKED! It'll be very interesting to see how this one turns out!
Best of luck to everyone competing
For members of both Power Company and the Current (and other schools who also have that option), they really make an extra huge commitment to the program! Even when Cece and I did crew for the Current, it was a big commitment but SO much fun! The overlapping of kids is because so many of us love show choir so much, we want to take advantage of the opportunity for more performing and fun! And like Dylan said, so many kids use this as an opportunity to gain more experience and become better performers. I personally really enjoyed the opportunity to be a part of both groups and I am SO glad we had that option.
Whatever rules each competition decides to put in place is completely up to them, and the rule change is definitely understandable. I think this will give those JV groups who moved up to AA an awesome opportunity and extra motivation to do their best!
This competition is STACKED! It'll be very interesting to see how this one turns out!
Best of luck to everyone competing
It's my personal opinion that groups should never be sharing members if they're competing. My only exception to this would be all-male groups as there generally aren't enough guys to have separate groups in the first place. Different groups have different skill levels, and it's not fair to stack the deck in a competitive situation.
At Waconia only guys are shared between the two groups to make up for a lack of male interest otherwise. I do believe that girls who are alternates for Power Company are also in The Current.
A group isn't really a junior varsity group when forced to compete with varsity groups, are they? Just because a school has a few students from their varsity group in the junior varsity group, doesn't make the group a varsity group. It's not like EVERYONE in the junior varsity group is also a member of the varsity group.
Is a junior varsity group really a junior varsity group when they have varsity members in the group? I think that is really the question that needs to be decided... How many members are in both groups?
From what ive heard and understood it wasnt Hastings who brought up the point of sharing and making the groups varsity....our girls would have to move up if the RIG guys do the "Kiss The Girl" transition, which is subject to change for that reason.
And that's why I said "I am not calling out Hastings or saying something bad about their competition or anything."
I am quite aware that Hastings is not the first competition to have a rule like this.
Again, I just thought it would be something interesting to talk about.
It is very exciting to have both groups performing in Open Class! It gives Current a new challenge, and an excuse to work even harder. I personally do not see it negatively!
Max, to answer your question, as far as I know, most of the states in the midwest have no rules about members in both groups. I know that Iowa does for sure, and that's the reason The Current didn't compete in Iowa with Power Company last year. But other than that, each competition is allowed to have their own rules regarding certain issues such as this one.
As an FYI... Iowa used to have this rule. A couple of years ago (maybe last year?), it was changed. Now, in Iowa, a performer may be in two groups as long as one of them is a single-gender group.
It brings up a interesting discussion. If a JV group is "sharing" members with the varsity, should they be moved up a division or even be allowed to compete? Should JV groups be allowed to "share" members?
It's my personal opinion that groups should never be sharing members if they're competing. My only exception to this would be all-male groups as there generally aren't enough guys to have separate groups in the first place. Different groups have different skill levels, and it's not fair to stack the deck in a competitive situation.
It brings up a interesting discussion. If a JV group is "sharing" members with the varsity, should they be moved up a division or even be allowed to compete? Should JV groups be allowed to "share" members?
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OH! and, I am not calling out Hastings or saying something bad about their competition or anything. The exact opposite! (: I love Hastings! I went to prom with Marty, ahha.
I just think it's an interesting point to bring up.
Womp.
From what ive heard and understood it wasnt Hastings who brought up the point of sharing and making the groups varsity....our girls would have to move up if the RIG guys do the "Kiss The Girl" transition, which is subject to change for that reason.
I agree with Cecelia. I was a member of both The Current and Power Company for all four years in high school, and I took on quite the work load during the week. Even though groups share members, they're still groups of their respective classes, and I believe they should be treated as such. In my Freshman and Sophomore years of high school, I needed the experience of being in the JV group to help me grow as a performer. Many choir programs double up members like that for many other reasons as well. In some cases, the student wants to do both, and in other instances some directors need to have students in both in order to have a strong JV group.
Max, to answer your question, as far as I know, most of the states in the midwest have no rules about members in both groups. I know that Iowa does for sure, and that's the reason The Current didn't compete in Iowa with Power Company last year. But other than that, each competition is allowed to have their own rules regarding certain issues such as this one.
As for wether or not this will become a trend? I sure hope not. A group isn't really a junior varsity group when forced to compete with varsity groups, are they? Just because a school has a few students from their varsity group in the junior varsity group, doesn't make the group a varsity group. It's not like EVERYONE in the junior varsity group is also a member of the varsity group.
(Note: These opinions are solely mine and do not reflect the views, ideas, or opinions of the Waconia Show Choir program. AND none of this is in regards to Hastings and how they choose to run their competition. Thanks Cece for helping me to remember to mention these things. )
I find it very interesting that The Current has been moved up, but none the less they are amazing and a force to be reckoned with. Whenever I see them, I feel as though I am watching a varsity, perhaps with younger faces. I love them!
It brings up a interesting discussion. If a JV group is "sharing" members with the varsity, should they be moved up a division or even be allowed to compete? Should JV groups be allowed to "share" members?
My generalized opinion? I think if a member of a varsity group wants to partake in both, they should be allowed and not punished by not being allowed to compete, or etc! For schools like Waconia, where show choir is NOT a class and all practice occurs outside of school hours, the member is taking on so much more responsibility. As we all know, being in a show choir is hard work, and if you choose to double up that work, I commend you. I was stage crew for our JV for three years, and they are one of the hardest working groups I have observed. As I have said in other threads, JV is becoming much more interesting and competitive to me. I don't really see the whole "that's unfair, they can't do that" side of this argument, to be QUITE honest. Maybe that's me being stubborn, but whatevs, right?
Anyways, I should note that my comments do not reflect Waconia's, I have no idea what they have to say on the issue. Just my input. Also, I just drank half a bottle of nyquill, so if my wording is odd- so be it. haha.
OH! and, I am not calling out Hastings or saying something bad about their competition or anything. The exact opposite! (: I love Hastings! I went to prom with Marty, ahha.
I just think it's an interesting point to bring up.
Womp.
The Current And T-Tones were moved up to AA because there are shared varsity members in the groups. Im assuming Express is the same?
Woo!! I'm pumped to show everyone that The Current (Watt specifically) is ready to step up to the challenge of competing with great varsity groups!
Has the shared members thing been an issue at other competitions before? I don't think I've seen it before, but I feel like it will be a trend for competitions to enforce this rule from now on. What do you guys think?
REVISED SCHEDULE:
Jefferson, "Jive" A
7:35
International School, "Universal Appeal" A
8:00
Eau Claire, "Eagle Show Choir" A
8:25
Benton Community, "Jubilation Inc." A
8:50
Totino, "Encore" A
9:15
Bloomington Kennedy, "East Side Swingers" A
9:40
Urbandale, "Vitality" A
10:05
Westside, "Simply Irresistible" A
10:30
Washburn, "Fire & Ice" A
10:55
Onalaska, "Express" AA
11:20
Hastings, "Divaz" Exhibition
11:45 Exhibition
Lunch Break
Waconia, "The Current" AA
12:20
Totino, "T>Tones" AA
12:45
South St. Paul, "Southside Sensation" AA
1:10
Benton Community, "Celebration Company" AA
1:35
Urbandale, "Studio 2011" AA
2:00
Onalaska, "Hilltoppers" AA
2:25
Westside, "Amazing Technicolor Show Choir" AA
2:50
Waconia, "The Power Company" AA
3:15
Eau Claire, "Old Abe" AA
3:40
Bloomington Kennedy, "Rhythm in Gold" AA
4:05
Totino ,"Company of Singers" AA
4:30
Hastings, "Upstage Revolution" Exhibition
4:55 Exhibition
The Current And T-Tones were moved up to AA because there are shared varsity members in the groups. Im assuming Express is the same?
Hastings Swingin' on the River 2011
