Is anyone brave enough to try to predict all of the groups that will be making it to the big show?
Actually, I remember putting that in a notepad file one day.. it went something like:
Branson - Center Grove, Petal, South Jones
Chicago - Totino-Grace, Wheaton-Warrenville, Fairfield
Hollywood - Mt. Zion, Hart, Brea-Olinda
New York - Eisenhower, Carroll, Olentangy
Orlando - Ankeney, Franklin Central, Omaha Westside
This is a rough estimate, seeing as though I don't have the best feel for choirs in the West and South.
I am not sure if anyone has said this yet, but I wish Showstoppers had done something like this. Showstoppers had always done a great and professional competition.
The idea of a National Championship competition has to start somewhere. As the main show choir association, FAME is attempting to do this. Granted, it is the first year of trying it out, this will grow into something that actually works after a few years of working the kinks out (if people/groups let it work out). Of course the first year isn't going to be perfect!
In 2011, FAME will determine a true national champion based on the system it has set-up. There will always be people and groups that will say otherwise, claiming that this system is flawed. To these people, I say...come up with a better one. Just like the BCS in college football or the March Madness tournament in college basketball, it has countless flaws, but people have accepted it over the years to be the system that names an Undisputed national champion.
FAME has set-up a system of qualifying events leading to an expense paid trip to a true national championship. The regional events were geographically chosen to assist groups in making one of them financially feasible. I really do have to second guess any group that knocks this new test-system down because not all groups can go.
If a group wants to be part of this system, then make it happen. Attend local competitions during the first part of the year, then go to the regional event as your last competition. If the group finishes in the top three there, all you have to pay for is transportation to the national championship. If you don't finish in the top three, then nothing is lost; Your group still got to attend a fun competition that featured groups from outside the local competitions.
This system will work, groups just have to buy into it.
Thanks for reading!
The way I see this, the smaller FAMEs could become sort of regional qualifiers. For example, Cali and western groups could hit up Hollywood. Illinois/Indiana groups could do Chicago, East Coast and Ohio could do NYC, and Southern could do Orlando. Oh, and Iowa/Nebraska/South Dakota, etc would do Branson. That is the FIRST thing that I thought of when I saw all of the qualifiers. This way, travel costs are cut down on the qualifying events and can be put towards the SCC event.
I don't think this is a good idea. I mean if you made it into a "regional" then groups couldn't experieence aa different competition sttylee. What if wws ,wb or swingsations wanted to experience orlando fame. Or hollywood fame but were stuck going to chicago where the groups live relativly close by and visit frequently?
I totally agree. It's a very good system if everybody would buy in. As for a ranking system, my dad is currently working on an RPI ranking system (like they do in college basketball) This is based on your winning percentage, opponent's winning percentage, and opponent's, opponent's winning percentage. He is still trying to decide how to work it out so it's as fair as possible.
Ranking systems are next to impossible, too. It's difficult because every group goes to a different number of competitions, every group competes against a different number of groups, competitions have different levels of depth and difficulty... it's a lot more complex than "who won the highest percentage of events." I'd love to have a more or less official/objective ranking list, too, but so far no one has come up with a system that works and it's why we don't endorse one on the website. Judging by its nature is subjective, and some could argue that this fact alone makes such a thing impossible.
Is it possible that an organization like ISSMA or BOA be started that would then give schools across the nation could be a part of?
I think this would have to be the approach we would need, and having different competitions across the country be qualifying events is the best way to do it. I'm not really for a "one competition decides all" mentality. That being said, you'd not only have to get such an organization started, but all of the choirs would have to agree on the rules and priorities set forth - and as we know, not everyone defines show choir the same way. I know for sure that some of the ISSMA rules wouldn't fly everywhere. Additionally, you'd have to ensure that each group went to a minimum number of qualifying events to be eligible, and if there aren't any in your area, then you're just out of luck. I do like the multi-tiered approach, and I would love to see some standardization across the country, but I honestly feel like there is too much resistance to this and my personal guess is that not enough directors/choirs would care enough to put the energy in to making it happen. The status quo seems to be fine for a lot of groups out there. I could be wrong (and would love to be), but we've wanted this sort of thing for years and it never seems to materialize.
My guess is that they picked Indanapolis because it's fairly central(ish) to the entire midwest region, it's a large, capital city, and a fresh new place for FAME that isn't a retread of somewhere they've already hosted an event at before. If they held it in, say, Waukegan Chicago, for example, it would be a little anticlimactic considering they will have just had an event there a few weeks prior. I think it's a good location for something like this.
As for the second part of your post, it was discussed a bit last year, and the idea of a "national championship" is in itself pretty much impossible to pull off for that very reason. At face value, I pretty much agree completely with your perspective... and I took some heat for it last year, but I still believe that to be crowned "the best" you have to beat the best. With that in mind, there isn't a system in place where everyone competes against everyone and FAME did lay out a plan to try to best accommodate that this year. The fact that Clinton, JBHS, and Burbank didn't take them up on the offer isn't the fault of any of the groups who will be attending this event (though one could also easily argue that a group shouldn't have to pay FAME rates just to be eligible for contention). I also believe that in order to have a "national championship," having prequalifying rounds are a must, and that's another thing FAME has brought to the table here. So in some ways, they're doing it the best they can. It's just unfortunate that we don't have a legit system in place to handle this kind of thing, because there are so many great groups across the country that having a true, official, national showdown would be spectacular. Until then, however, I have to agree with you that nothing can really be called a "true" national championship without a system that determines the best groups in the country and pits them all against each other.
I am taking a huge shot in the dark here...
Is it possible that an organization like ISSMA or BOA be started that would then give schools across the nation could be a part of? My doing this, these schools could then have an opportunity to have a specific panel of judges that would do these events? Or have this organization create opportunities for directors and choreographers get certified to judge these competitions based on a nationally based scoring sheet?
So by doing this, for example, if Edgewood joined this organization, they would then be able to make their Contest of Champions a competition that used a standardized score sheet. Then everyone is judged on the same specific scoring criteria by certified judges. They take the top sixty scores from that and offer them an opportunity to come to Indianapolis for a shot at the championship.
It would be similar to Bands of America that they hosted at Lucas Oil Stadium. They had over sixty bands compete and they narrowed it down to the top fifteen. Then the top fifteen compete for the national championship.
Again, shot in the dark. Any and all feedback would be great. Just down throw web based fruit and vegetables at me, please!
As for the second part of your post, it was discussed a bit last year, and the idea of a "national championship" is in itself pretty much impossible to pull off for that very reason. At face value, I pretty much agree completely with your perspective... and I took some heat for it last year, but I still believe that to be crowned "the best" you have to beat the best. With that in mind, there isn't a system in place where everyone competes against everyone and FAME did lay out a plan to try to best accommodate that this year. The fact that Clinton, JBHS, and Burbank didn't take them up on the offer isn't the fault of any of the groups who will be attending this event (though one could also easily argue that a group shouldn't have to pay FAME rates just to be eligible for contention). I also believe that in order to have a "national championship," having prequalifying rounds are a must, and that's another thing FAME has brought to the table here. So in some ways, they're doing it the best they can. It's just unfortunate that we don't have a legit system in place to handle this kind of thing, because there are so many great groups across the country that having a true, official, national showdown would be spectacular. Until then, however, I have to agree with you that nothing can really be called a "true" national championship without a system that determines the best groups in the country and pits them all against each other.
I totally agree. It's a very good system if everybody would buy in. As for a ranking system, my dad is currently working on an RPI ranking system (like they do in college basketball) This is based on your winning percentage, opponent's winning percentage, and opponent's, opponent's winning percentage. He is still trying to decide how to work it out so it's as fair as possible.
For me, this sounds like a really cool idea...but impossible to pull off being a true national championship. If you look at the list it's missing three of the show choirs that automaticaly come up when you say, "best in the country". There's no Clinton, JBHS, or Burbank. Not to mention, no Waubonsie Valley or any of the powerhouse Iowa schools (minus Ankeny). I think it's a really cool idea and a great experience for the kids, but it's not a "true" national championship.
My guess is that they picked Indanapolis because it's fairly central(ish) to the entire midwest region, it's a large, capital city, and a fresh new place for FAME that isn't a retread of somewhere they've already hosted an event at before. If they held it in, say, Waukegan Chicago, for example, it would be a little anticlimactic considering they will have just had an event there a few weeks prior. I think it's a good location for something like this.
As for the second part of your post, it was discussed a bit last year, and the idea of a "national championship" is in itself pretty much impossible to pull off for that very reason. At face value, I pretty much agree completely with your perspective... and I took some heat for it last year, but I still believe that to be crowned "the best" you have to beat the best. With that in mind, there isn't a system in place where everyone competes against everyone and FAME did lay out a plan to try to best accommodate that this year. The fact that Clinton, JBHS, and Burbank didn't take them up on the offer isn't the fault of any of the groups who will be attending this event (though one could also easily argue that a group shouldn't have to pay FAME rates just to be eligible for contention). I also believe that in order to have a "national championship," having prequalifying rounds are a must, and that's another thing FAME has brought to the table here. So in some ways, they're doing it the best they can. It's just unfortunate that we don't have a legit system in place to handle this kind of thing, because there are so many great groups across the country that having a true, official, national showdown would be spectacular. Until then, however, I have to agree with you that nothing can really be called a "true" national championship without a system that determines the best groups in the country and pits them all against each other.
For me, this sounds like a really cool idea...but impossible to pull off being a true national championship. If you look at the list it's missing three of the show choirs that automaticaly come up when you say, "best in the country". There's no Clinton, JBHS, or Burbank. Not to mention, no Waubonsie Valley or any of the powerhouse Iowa schools (minus Ankeny). I think it's a really cool idea and a great experience for the kids, but it's not a "true" national championship.
Branson Evolution - American Leadership Academy (Utah)
Tiger Rhythm Show Choir - Broken Arrow (Oklahoma)
Debtones - Center Grove (Indiana)
Sound System - Center Grove (Indiana)
East Express - Lincoln (Nebraska)
Showstoppers - Malvern (Ohio)
Great Expectations - O'Fallon (Illinois)
Innovations - Petal (Mississippi)
Soundsations - Petal (Mississippi)
City Lights -Rock Bridge (Missouri)
Satin N' Lace - Rock Bridge (Missouri)
Company - South Jones (Mississippi)
Womens Show Choir - South Jones (Mississippi)
Chicago Gold Rush - Eldorado (New Mexico)
Cardinal Singers - Mayville (Wisconsin)
Company of Singers - Totino-Grace (Minnesota)
Great Expectations - Twinsburg (Ohio)
Power Company - Waconia (Minnesota)
Prominent Rendition - Teays Valley (Ohio)
Show Choir - West Allegheny (Pennsylvania)
The Classics - Wheaton Warrenville (Illinois)
24 Carat - Eldorado (New Mexico)
Choraliers - Fairfield (Ohio)
Hollywood Evolution - American Leadership Academy (Utah)
Starship - Enterprise (California)
Sound Vibrations - Hart (California)
Swingsations - Mt. Zion (Illinois)
Sing-co-pation - Santa Susana (California)
Taste of Sound - Safford (Arizona)
Vocal Point - Serrano (California)
Music Unlimited - Waltham (Massachusetts)
Music Express - Waltham (Massachusetts)
Hartbreakers - Hart (Califnoria)
Les Femmes - Mt. Zion (Illinois)
Masquerade - Brea Olinda (California)
Spellbound - Brea Olinda (California)
Evolution - Willow Canyon (Arizona)
New York Minstrell Magic - Carroll (Indiana)
Select Sound - Carroll (Indiana)
Elite Energy - Eisenhower (Illinois)
Broadway Bound - Harlington (Texas)
Trojanares - Jenks (Oklahoma)
Keynotes - Olentangy (Ohio)
Orlando Visual Adrenaline - Ankeny (Iowa)
New Era - Churabusco (Indiana)
Central Singers - Davenport Central (Iowa)
F.C. Singers - Franklin Central (Indiana)
High Voltage - Franklin Central (Indiana)
Capital Swing - Manchester (Virginia)
Touch of Swing - Manchester (Virginia)
Amazing Technicolor Show Choir - Omaha Westside (Nebraska)
Legacy - Sumrall (Mississippi)
The Rebelaires - Westwood (Iowa)
Evolution - Willow Canyon (Arizona)
Syndicated Sound - Tarpon Springs (Florida)
Looking at this list, there is:
1 Group from Utah
1 Group from Oklahoma
7 Groups from Indiana
2 Groups from Nebraska
5 Groups from Ohio
5 Groups from Illinois
5 Groups from Mississippi
2 Groups from Missouri
2 Groups from New Mexico
1 Group from Wisconsin
2 Groups from Minnesota
1 Groups from Pennsylvania
7 Groups from California
2 Groups from Arizona
2 Groups from Massachusetts
1 Group from Texas
3 Groups from Iowa
2 Groups from Virginia
1 Groups from Florida
53 Total Show Choirs
From 19 Different States.
So right now there are a bunch a groups from all over the place. It looks like these will be great competitions and it will be fun to see which groups continue to Indianapolis.
Are there other groups not updated on FAME's website attending one of the qualifiers?
On the FAME website it says that the event is taking place the Indianapolis Convention Center. It says a custom stage will be built for the event.
Also on their website are the dates of the 2012 FAME events and the date of a 2012 FAME National Show Choir Championship. Does that mean that FAME will continue this next year with another "National Championship?"
I don't know yet if it's a FAME competition or not, but our director said we are going to an out of state competition that is in a state that isn't touching Ohio, so Olentangy MIGHT be at one of the qualifiers.
FAME Show Choir National Finals 2011
It's difficult because every group goes to a different number of competitions, every group competes against a different number of groups, competitions have different levels of depth and difficulty... it's a lot more complex than "who won the highest percentage of events." I'd love to have a more or less official/objective ranking list, too, but so far no one has come up with a system that works and it's why we don't endorse one on the website. Judging by its nature is subjective, and some could argue that this fact alone makes such a thing impossible.
