Well, well, well. So many accusations, so manypeople with teir own opions, how an I not add mine into the mix. I was there last night... not during the day. My friend was there and told me the whole judging deboccale.
Aparently, in the day.. four judges were the ones judging the show choir's show (inclding vocals and choreo). One judg was Bill Griffel fom Fraklin Central, Chris Mettert from East Noble, Dave Morton from Col. City (formerly), and another judge with the last name of Hilgert- he was a college senior without a degree of any kind. From what I understand several directors told the contest oficials they didnt think it was professional for a non-degreed person to judge groups. The contest officials agreed and pulled the judge for finals. The other judges listed in the programs did the silly and non-intellegent awards... what I mean is, what professional needs to gie out bst dressed direcor o bet ue of props... FOr costumes I doubt Versaci was avilable.
My biggest issue is that in watching the finals... and no, I am no longer affiliated with a choir... I was there to support a friend. My bigest problem was there really was no contest between Carroll and Center Grove. Vocally and choreograhicaly Center Grove was better. For whoever said Carroll with 24 singers sang just as loud as CG, it is not about loud sinigng. Choregraphically speaking, Carroll has a lot of arm choreograhy... they dont really move their feet, and if you watch their show you see their backs to the audience way too much.
In addition, take complete exception with those of you who say, "It dosn't matter how good a Director's group is, they know what they are talking about!" Thats bull shi*. If I was the director of Center Grove or Carroll, wh would Icare what the director of groups who I have beatenthink of my group. East Noble consistently doesnt make finals. Franklin Central' director was bad mouthing CG at SHowstoppers in their warm-up according to a friend of mine who was changing in the room next door. Do you really trust him to be impartial? I wouldnt. Also, every judge adjudicating vocals should have a degree and have experience wrking with teenage voices... in my humble opinion. That is why Hilgert never shold have been a judge!
So, ther is my humble opinion nd hopefully tha will help with RUMORS!
thank you sing*dance. you are part of the few people to notice the talent of Carroll. thank you for the nice comment. we just seem to be getting bashed every where we go. CG you guys were awesome! i loved your show and it was very entertaining. your costumes were really pretty! i like the cinderalla dresses the best! so cool! and the debtones! i love your second number! it's so cool i also love those brown dresses! how cool. congrats to everyone there.
For those of you who think Center Grove should have won hands down, think what you want, but THEY DIDN'T... I am not trying to say anything bad about them, they are amazing, but I just thnk it's sad how everyone makes Carroll look like a nothing when they obviously have talent... The judges liked them... So what? Center Grove still won, so it shouldnt be an issue that Carroll must have done better than them in Prelims... CG has an amazing sound, but carroll has almost the same volume from 24... That should give them some points, and Carroll danced a lot more than CG, until their closer... So I think they deserved everything they got... Maybe CG seriously kicked it up in the night show, who knows, maybe Carroll's show didnt go as well, but either way it was close... And the judges know what they are doing... That is why they are judges... And if the are really so biased because CG wins, why did they have them win in the night show? If they wanted carroll to win so CG wouldnt, you think it would be the same in both shows... hmm
thanks for saying that we sounded nice...i totally thought it was the other way around though their vocals blow me away but their choreo didnt...dont get me wrong it was great and their show is by far my favorite this year so im glad that we even got to compete against them....but yea we only lost by 2 points.....so thats awesome
Judges-very poorly jusging groups, probably not qualified, but nobody is perfect, did i like it no but we cant help that now, i agree that the judges should have been better picked and not just taken the first few who said sure, but bashing ont hem needs to stop, and dont say anyhting about the groups either, i mena thers a lot of directors out there who are awesome, but they might not have the talent in the kids that they need, but yes if they are a godd director they should be able to make anyone beter but some vocal;s u cant work on, im a dancer not the best singer but i still dont hurt the group, so lets not bash ont their groups or the directors record!!!!!!!!!
Scoring-was very screwed up but it happens it's not like u havnt made an error before, so lets let it all go and have fun and not make a bashing contest!!!!!! Now i thought there might have been a bigger gap between Carrol and Center Grove but it wasnt as big as I htought it owuld be casue Center Grove defintalty nailed it at night. But they still won so its not a huge deal but like I said lets not start bashing each other.
Captions-WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED THERE?????????i guess its former students who gave those out, and they werent based upon the score like it should be. I mean I guess they werent watchign the same show as everyone else casue Center Grove was defintalty better than Carrol choreographically, i mean Carrol died at the end of the show and they really didnt have that amny hard moves, Center Grove had the WHOLE choir tap. Now only the people on the floor had taps but they all did the moves and didnt stand there and watch while 3 or 4 people did hte tapping, so I dont know how people could say that Carrol was better choreographically than Center Grove. Now vocally Carrol was well balanced and blended beautifuly, but i still say Center Grove had htem beat, btu for 24 people amazing suond Carrol flat out amazing!!!!!!!!!!! But still Center Grove definatly deserved the vocals and choreo captions but thats only my opinion.
Now lets just make it fuun and tlak about something else but if u wanna tlak about this then atleast dont start bashing each other cause show choir is supposed to be fun and our escape from the rest of the world for one day.(or for me that is)
But hey good luck to everyone on the rest of your season and i hope to see people improve for next year!!!!!!!!!!!GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WOW why is everyone attacking Franklin Central? Does is REALLY matter how many Grand Championships or Captions they have won? The answer for any inteligent person is obviously NO! I cant believe you guys are gonna sit here and attack judges, that is so immature and rude. Yes there were some definate problems with the ADDING of scores, but come on people that is no grounds to attack a judge/director/ or success of a director. The fact is, the success of a director's choir has no weight in determining his qualification! Its one thing to express your concerns about a judge's biases, but its another thing to attack his group and poke fun at the amount of grand championships they have, thats just plain ridiculous! The most interesting thing is the people bashing these choirs dont even assosiate themselves with a choir... HMMMMM could it be because of your CLASSLESS bashing and immature behavior... probably
Great! Dumbstruck...We can only hope!
Anyone that thinks all Directors are qualified to judge should be struck in some manner!
Hey, BSU this is all opinions, we all have them. You and I disagree obviously about this topic, but probably agree about others,. However, I think from reading everything, most people agree this was silliness at it finest moment and that silliness was caused by Directors that should not be judging!
Question for you..based on history..Who would you want to judge your show choir?
Carla Dowles from Carroll High School with how many years experience and how many Grand Championship trophies and caption trophies? Chritopher Pratt from Center Grove with an undefeated season and many Grand Championship trophies and caption awards, both mixed and girls. OR I guess you would rather have the FC Director with how many Grandchapionship trophies and how many caption trophies? Or the East Noble guy with any at all? Or perhaps the students from the local beauty school?
According to you, all these Directors are qualified. Do you really agree with yourself?
On to next year!
Hey BSU GUY, I would hardly consider the post about judging rude. If that post was the rudest you have ever seen, then you have been sheltered or must be related to one of of those judges. FACTS ARE FACTS....That panel was not qualified to judge these groups, plain and simple.
How many Grand Champions did the Franklin Central Director get this year? The ex Columbia City Director now directs middle school and has been away from show choir for along time. Actually, he was probably the best qualified on the panel.Then according to the program, another judge was from East Noble. PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZ...Have you seen them lately!!!! One judge didn't even have a degree! Kids giving stupid caption awards..I agree this was an emabarrassment ..
But I think it was an embarrassment to the judges..more than Triton Central . I am sure the new director at Triton and the parents thought these "people" would be competent. Instead, what you got was "people" that acted like they had an ax to gring against certain schools. Maybe the schools that consistantly have beat them. Who knows...
I think Carroll is good...really good and if they weren't competeing against Center grove than they would have won this contest. But, they were not vocally better nor anywhere near choreographically better than CG..Plain and simple!
Probably lots of people felt they got robbed at the contest. Granted, it came out the way it should have. The caption award were screwy and one judge was invited out the door. Do you still think all judges are equal?
I was there and it was pretty unbelievable. This sort of mayhem supports the position that there should be rules and guidelines to show choir events so judges have to be qualified and have to be held accountable for idiotic things they do. I would love to see some of these judges get on this serve and explain themselves!
I hope the new director at Triton and the parents don't give up on their Winterfest as they did a good job running it. Mistakes happen..this was just a big one. It worked out sorta...I am sure there will always be some doubt with some groups that maybe they would have made the finals IF things were done right and IF that panel of "people" had been competent.
Was there even a choreography judge? Just an after thought...Or was that done by a student attending beauty school..OH yes..ALL JUDGES ARE GOOD AND SHOULDN'T BE CRITICIZED..right BSUGuy? I forgot....
I made a new topic to discuss your thoughts about Winterfest. I also cleared up some misconceptions in my first post. Please go there to answer all the questions you had.
What a fiasco!! What a collosol mess this comp was.
The winner was Center Grove Sound System, Carroll, Collerain,City Heat, North and Southwestern.
Center Grove girls won their division.
But what should one expect when the judging panel is made up of a bunch of "wanna be good directors of good groups" but aren't.
Bet Center Grove and Carroll can hardly wait to see what this group of losers had to tell them!
Triton better come up with a better panel next year. The people and kids of Triton were nice, but judging needs to be judges that are qualified to judge. What ever was paid to these people that showed up needs to be rescinded as any amount was too much.
I am embarrassed for them...
that has to be the rudest post i've ever read in my entire life. anyone that directs a choir is fully qualified to judge anyone. i am just dumbstruck by your lack of thought. amazing.
Well I want to write more about this contest tomorrow... but the scoring/tabulations ws a wreck. That is the one part, a contest should not mess up. And on to of that, incompentent judges. Center rove should have won this contes hands down. The judges were Chris Mettert from East Noble, Dave Morton, and William Griffel from Franklin Central. At least that is who it was when I got tere for finals... just in time for the scoring disaster. I heard ne jdge was removed because h didn't have a degree. Does anyone know more about this?
It seems like this topic has the potential to get way out of hand. Lets PLEASE not even begin to start attacking the judges, adjudicators, and staff from Triton Central. It is tough to run an Invitational and there are sometimes bumps along the way. It seems to me that by the end of the night things panned out and the competiton went pretty well. Congratulations to all of the groups who attended.
Yeah, Luers ya'll got robbed of a finals spot..... But i hate to get into the what if's and attacking the qulaifications of judges, so i wont. Anyway no offense to carrol but im really glad Center Grove took the GC after the shakey prelim fiasco. Carrol you guys are awesome, but Center Grove was just flat out better. Its late a heck so I'll post with more opinions late, peace out ya'll, and I wanna give a shot out to Dru who i finally got to meet! LOL what happened to the lights during prelims LOL!
Thank God, I was worried after the day show awards!
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But what should one expect when the judging panel is made up of a bunch of "wanna be good directors of good groups" but aren't. Bet Center Grove and Carroll can hardly wait to see what this group of losers had to tell them! Triton better come up with a better panel next year. What ever was paid to these people that showed up needs to be rescinded as any amount was too much.
Amen! I mean, one of those judges had only been out of college for two years, and didn't even have a graduate degree! Oh, and TC pays their judges $600. This equates to about $40 an hour, which, yes, was way too much!
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What a fiasco!! What a collosol mess this comp was.
Triton Central Winterfest 2004
