the scores in prelims went
North Central-167.2
Bendavis-166.2
Franklin Central-166
Carmel- 165.8
The scored in Finals went
North Central-179.1
Franklin Central- 172.8
Ben Davis- 170
However on another note i just want to say congratulations to CP!!! U guys rocked your night show and improved by 12.1 points!! Thats a well accomplished and well deserved win. You were very professional to Franklin Cnetral and Ben Davis and you handeled yourself like a Sate Championship show choir should!! Im very impressed in the way your show was improved from Bendavis and am very confident in how you will do in New York
I missed North Central's show due to attending the class b mixed state. I heard they revamped their show, can anyone tell me how it was different. Congratulations to everyone who competed at ISSMA, everyone did supa tight!
nc - wow! i guess those changes to your show paid off! congratulations counterpoints your show was VERY different this year and it was enjoyable to watch! good luck at FAME NY! represent indy well!
fc - i didnt get to see your finals performance but after seeing your prelims i knew you guys were gonna come out and perform for that top spot. your vocals were absolutely outstanding. congrats on the 1RU!
Anyone who's a big fan of North Central's "The Devil You Know" might be interested in this video.
It's their 2005 version which showcases much much cleaner choir, and you can even tell how much better the vocals were on VIDEO. Oh, and you can watch it in high quality.
CAN'T WAIT for my dvd to come so i can post this year's "The Devil You Know" right next to the 2005 version.
It's nearly identical. The start off in a slightly different block during the transition into it, but other than that...
a) closer was a great, flashy number but it just didn't work for us this year. consistently, the judges were saying that closer was the number that was killing us.
b) that video is from the year end show at 2005. of course they're cleaner - they worked on that number for six months. we learned the devil you know in three hours at the end of last week. i would say we're puh-retty clean for having only learned it a week and half ago.
c) yeah, it's practically identical. it woody's choreography. he has the right to reuse if he wants to.
d) i personally think our vocals are stronger than 2005, plus my best fraaand has the solo so i think she absolutely rocks it!!
honestly, not trying to be rude or anything. i think our show is ten times stronger with the devil you know instead of closer, and i have so much FUN performing the devil!!
anyways... it was an awesome competition. i got to watch womens finals and was very impressed with both carmel and fc, but didn't get to see anyone else. can't wait to get the finals dvd! congrats to everyone!
Ok so disregard the part of my comment devoted to Carmel. It still lacks tact to say that sort of thing about ANY show choir.
Ok... thanks for that... im gonna stick to what I think about CG not carmel because i think carmel accents did amazing today. Wish i could have seen FC.
so did anyone not read my other comment ... me saying sorry I meant really Center Grove.... and lots of people feel the same as me on this subject... sorry if others dont feel the same
Ok so disregard the part of my comment devoted to Carmel. It still lacks tact to say that sort of thing about ANY show choir.
I agree with Scott. If content is so important, how do choirs with "armography" beat choirs with significantly more difficult choreography with the same level of cleanliness visually? On the flip side, if execution is 50% why should a choir that ATTEMPTS tap but does NOT have it cleaned get more points than a choir who knows their limits and performs slightly less difficult moves with expert precision?
It is all subjective.
That's the answer to both questions.
Subjectivity is the bane of show choir's existence.
It always sucks when you see your favorite choir perform their best show with the tightest vocals and visuals imaginable only to see them lose to a choir that you deem inferior.
ISSMA 2008...and now, 2009 although I was not there to witness this upset :<
i KNOW my director would flip if she saw me say something like this on scc...or to anyone in our group for that matter. it is really quite disrespectful to carmel and, while i think that they are the most underrated/overrated choir in indiana, they do work hard and if you are going to talk about someone's show you really should get your facts straight and maybe go read some of the comments on the board devoted to the debate over their excellence and learn something. while they HAVE been known to have some flashy sets and props, that's in the past AND they have talent to back it up. this is also to the person wondering how people could compare LC and NC because LC's show sucks? while show chior IS subjective, learn some tact.
so did anyone not read my other comment ... me saying sorry I meant really Center Grove.... and lots of people feel the same as me on this subject... sorry if others dont feel the same
I would argue that these indicators:
On the vocal sheet -
Dynamics
style/idiomatic interp
phrasing
variety
pacing
tempo
balance with accomp
and inter-relationship with visual
On the visual sheet -
Style/idiomatic interpretation
variety
pacing
tempo
costuming and staging
and
inter relationship with musical elements
Are determining outcomes reflecting the director's work only.
you have to remember that EXECUTION is being judged as well. yes those reflect the work of the director...but a director can pick a great show with everything technically perfect about it (costumes, design, band, tempo, variety) and a choir could rush, sing quieter due to nerves, sing lounder due to nerves, not do the dynamics the way they should be done (a piano only getting down to a mezzo piano or a forte only reaching a mezzo forte), or not execute the style of a song correctly...thus taking those fields that the director originally had within his/her control, into the control of the choir. you can have an amazing director but if the choir doesnt execute, then there is no sucess. therefore, those elements you listed should be judged...choirs do control them. agreed they are originally the directors job...but in the end, its the choir that needs to execute those elements on stage, not the director.
OK, i can't find it online... I have it in a pdf if you want it sometime KEV, just email me at [email protected] and i'll fwd it to you...
This is a basic break down though...
"Each of subcaptions below are evaluated based on the criterion reference chart on the back of this sheet. Understand that WHAT is being performed is evaluated at the same time as HOW it is being performed. Therefore, since achievement is what a judge is to determine, it must be understood that the evaluation of construction and content of the program, in combination with the evaluation of the demonstrated performance level is what determines the degree of achievement. It is impossible to properly evaluate one of these elements without considering the other."
Even that quote, i have an issue with.
If you look at the sheet, it is pretty much a 50/50 split of Execution and Selection.
My issue, is that 50 percent of what is on the sheet, has nothing to do with what the performers on stage are doing, but the work that took place in a director's office months earlier.
Also, if content is so important, how did the much less difficult Pike show win out over the (in my opinion) more difficult shows of North Central and Franklin Central.
Vocal Sheet: 60 % of total
Technique: 100 pts
tone quality
breath support/control
projection
blend
balance
intonation
diction
vowel uniformity
rhythmic cohesiveness
Artistry: 100 pts
dynamics
style/idiomatic interpretation
phrasing
expression
variety
pacing
tempo
balance with accomp.
inter-relationship with visual elements and accom
Visual Sheet 40% of total score:
Technique:
alignment and spacing
body carriage and control
posture
equip/prop control
movement uniformity
dance fundamentals
recovery
Artistry:
style/idiomatic interpretation
facial expression/communication
characterization
variety
pacing
tempo
costuming and staging
inter-relationship with musical elements.
I would argue that these indicators:
On the vocal sheet -
Dynamics
style/idiomatic interp
phrasing
variety
pacing
tempo
balance with accomp
and inter-relationship with visual
On the visual sheet -
Style/idiomatic interpretation
variety
pacing
tempo
costuming and staging
and
inter relationship with musical elements
Are determining outcomes reflecting the director's work only.
Franklin Central, THANK YOU for the fantastic work you did today and tonight. Your shows were celebrations that I was very proud to be a part of, and I'm so happy that your great persistence in improving over the course of the year paid off with a wonderful day. High Voltage, WHAT A YEAR! I'm hoping that Mr Knaup isn't lactose intolerant from the milk-drinking exhibition. FC Singers, you saved your best for last, and you performed with fun, energy and great heart! God Bless, Damon
Thank you, we just can't pull of hip-hop like some of the other schools. What can I say? We're from suburbia :D
I just think the problem is the overall lack of objectivity in the judging process. I also think that, while it is REALLY subjective to judge on entertainment value I think that a choir that doesn't entertain the audience should NOT score well. A boring show is pointless even if it is technically perfect. Congrats to NC for winning the title and also to FC and BD.
I think i'd disagree with this...
KNOWING how many of the judges we see on a weekly basis that are over 40... i'd say that objectivity is the issue... You can't possibly expect a decent answer to "How Well did this choir perform their show?", when you've got the question "Did you enjoy their song selection?" valued nearly the same as the first question, right next to it on the scoresheet." There are too many "Creative" captions on the issma scoresheet... I'm over simplifying the scoresheet obviously, but you get what i'm saying
I'm starting to think that there is no fair way to judge show choirs. If there is, ISSMA should find it... because they haven't yet
Plainfield had one of the most beautiful vocal sounds i've heard this year. Your show is kind of simple, kind of out of date as far as the "new age" of show choir goes, but plainfield ALWAYS executes VERY well... And in all reality, as i've said before, you cannot judge anything else in show choir.
There is one problem plaguing the world of Indiana Show Choir, and that is...
Duh duh duh.......!
The ISSMA Scoresheet...
I just printed a copy so i could burn it...
Thank you, we just can't pull of hip-hop like some of the other schools. What can I say? We're from suburbia :D
I just think the problem is the overall lack of objectivity in the judging process. I also think that, while it is REALLY subjective to judge on entertainment value I think that a choir that doesn't entertain the audience should NOT score well. A boring show is pointless even if it is technically perfect. Congrats to NC for winning the title and also to FC and BD.
Indiana State Large School Finals 2009
honestly, not trying to be rude or anything. i think our show is ten times stronger with the devil you know instead of closer, and i have so much FUN performing the devil!! 
can't wait to get the finals dvd! congrats to everyone! 
