Thank you to everyone that has supported Lawrence Central this year and in years past. Speaking as a Co-President and active member of Central Sound, I am sorry for some of the rude comments that have been posted. Members of The Central Sound were saddened to hear we did not make finals. In saying that though we also understand it was not due to any other reason than us just not performing to our highest capability.
To clear things up, we as a choir understand best combo is for whoever has the best band overall. We also do not use this as an indicator to know if we made finals. Best band is for purely that, and that alone. We also understand this is a site where people post there own opinions of shows and other show choir related topics, hoping not to be judged or anything along thoughs lines. Again we are sorry for the way some of the Parents/Alumni have been posting latley.
Things happen and we understand that. But as a choir we will move on, and work this week to better ourselves for our upcoming competitons. Again, thank you to all our supporters, and a sincere apology to anyone who has had to deal with ignorant statements made in previous posting.
For everyone going to HN we cannot wait to see you there. Should be a fun and exciting day.
This is a show choir discussion board. Not everyone on here is going to like your show or agree with your statements. Bringing something like minor medical situations into the discussion to make others feel bad for being critical of Lawrence Central is just low. "Oh you didn't like our dresses? Well, one of our students had an asthma attack!" It sounds so ridiculous. Or were you trying to justify why LC didn't make finals? Either way, it's not relevant (especially because it happened AFTER their performance).
"Central Sound" is an excellent group, and many of us agree, but it just wasn't their day. It wasn't the scoring criteria, the judges, or the combo. They simply did not have enough points to make finals.
I really think CSDAD was just trying to add some perspective here!
Thanks to all the people at MIC that offered their praise of "The Central Sound" and our show. Saturday was quite an interesting day but alas it's over and there's not a thing we can do about it. CS members don't even have words to speak about NC MIC contest anymore and its on to Huntington North for us! Again, thanks to all the supporters!
FYI
When the MIC athletic conference was set up, North Central's administration wanted it to be an over - arching, multi - dimensional association. Each year, the conference member schools have a day - long choral event with a guest conductor. It culminates with a concert of the workshop selections.
When NC decided to host its first competition, the administration selected the name.
Are you sure? I have a video from the 1998 & 1999 competitions at the MIC and in the opening credits, it says North Centrals' "Music in the City"
Way to go Scott! Now the $64,000 Question- Why did they decide to name it after their athletic conference?
FYI
When the MIC athletic conference was set up, North Central's administration wanted it to be an over - arching, multi - dimensional association. Each year, the conference member schools have a day - long choral event with a guest conductor. It culminates with a concert of the workshop selections.
When NC decided to host its first competition, the administration selected the name.
One of our singers was taken to the hospital during finals with a severe asthma attack. Another was rushed to be with her mother at the hospital while her mother underwent emergency testing.
This is a show choir discussion board. Not everyone on here is going to like your show or agree with your statements. Bringing something like minor medical situations into the discussion to make others feel bad for being critical of Lawrence Central is just low. "Oh you didn't like our dresses? Well, one of our students had an asthma attack!" It sounds so ridiculous. Or were you trying to justify why LC didn't make finals? Either way, it's not relevant (especially because it happened AFTER their performance).
"Central Sound" is an excellent group, and many of us agree, but it just wasn't their day. It wasn't the scoring criteria, the judges, or the combo. They simply did not have enough points to make finals.
Congratulations to all groups performing last night. Being that i'm out of town i wasn't able to see the shows but i'm Keeping caught up on here. To me it seems like no one has anything to say about the ISSMA scoring until after a competition where North Central doesn't win and LC doesn't place well. The reason the score sheet works, is because truly The best choir always wins. For a long time it was north central, Last year it was Carmel who deserved the GC, and this year it may well be FC. The only problem in my opinion with the ISSMA contests is not the scoring, But the judges. I definately think there needs to be a better way to get judges for these competitions. The idea is that they use the same scoresheet so that In theory every contest is judged the same. but with judges being objective, and having different taste, scores will change with every panel.
Issma should hire a panel of judges agreed on by the directors in the district, to judge all the qualifiers (Ben Davis, Pike, North Central, Lawrence Central) and State. I believe those are all the qualifiers aren't they?
Way to Go FC! on your 3rd GC of this season, and congratulations all groups on what i'm sure were fantastic performances.
Oh Choir Dad.
What school is your child involved with? What is his or her name?
Plainfield: I've seen you guys progress astoundingly since 2003. It's evident you guys are growing stronger every year. The best word to describe your show this year is probably "good". I say that because you lacked consistency in vocals, your visuals were impressive but slightly overkill, and the song selection, in my humble opinion, was just a bit scattered. Your number about Peter the Rabbit was fun, but it went on far too long. I did love the energy and clarity of text you had, though. Your ballad was definitely the highest point of your show. The intonation and dynamic contrast you had was impressive, and it showed the judges you know how to sing properly. Now, to your closer... Loving Thoroughly Modern Millie as much as I do, I'm probably a little biased, but I have to say that I wasn't in love with the arrangement. It seemed lower than the original key, and because of this, some harmonies toward the end sounded sort of skewed. Your choreography was nice, but I believe cutting some of it to ensure text clarity and intonation would be wise. I liked the soloist, though...she was good.
A little harsh, I think.
We are working on vocals. If you had seen us at Lawrence Central and then seen us at North central, Our vocals have improved by leaps and bounds. I would say what our group is lacking is just energy and just "performing" it. I would say that FC won bc of this.
FC- Great job! I love your show. especially the college number!
LC- Should have made finals! Extremely talented group.
Zionsville- You guys have really improved! Hope you guys continue to step it up every competition.
Way to go Plainfield! Your show was outstanding. I am confident you guys will take the constructive information given from the NC judges and online critics and work more magic over the next week! As always, I am totally amazed by the amount of talent in each group. I would NOT like to have the job of deciding the winners....I think all show choir kids are winners! GO Ptown!
QUOTE(PSyoudontfoolme @ Mar 2 2008, 11:39 AM) 424260
And playing to an earlier comment about LC getting best combo so that should have had them in finals, best combo is purely the band. A group could have the worst show ever (not talking about LC, they have a cute show) and a phenomenal band, so best combo is in no way something that plays into whether or not they go into finals.
I agree completely. You may have the best band around, but if your vocals and visuals are not as good (to the judges at that competition) as the other groups, then you should not make finals. A band can completely overpower the vocals, so you can't hear the singing at all, but the band is still awesome. This has happened to my group before too so I'm not just bashing on LC. At Big Dance in 2006 we received Best Band but we also placed in 7th. So it happens.
QUOTE(PSyoudontfoolme @ Mar 2 2008, 10:39 AM) 424260
I totally agree. I think if the ISSMA scoring sheet is used, then the judges should be "ISSMA certified". Then everything would be completely even across the board and maybe everyone would stop complaining. And, you are right, no one complains about the ISSMA scoring when they do well or when the group they expect to make finals, makes finals. Even non-ISSMA judging can put a typically "good" group low on the list, due to DQs and prop issues and microphone issues (ex. LafJeff was in 4th at Anderson, but DQed to 6th because they didn't clean their confetti off the stage).
And just so everyone knows: a name can only get you so far. Just because you are typically good doesn't mean you are good every year, but you can improve.
And playing to an earlier comment about LC getting best combo so that should have had them in finals, best combo is purely the band. A group could have the worst show ever (not talking about LC, they have a cute show) and a phenomenal band, so best combo is in no way something that plays into whether or not they go into finals. Also, having practically skin toned dresses is not exciting, when you see those dresses walk out onto the stage, you don't get excited, you don't wonder "oooh what are they gonna do in those". So as much as costume shouldn't affect scoring, the dresses were boring which may have made LCs show visually boring to them. I will say that LC hands down, has the best guys numbers...every year.
Having exited sophomore year from the show choir scene, it was nice to see some quality ensembles yesterday. I'll give my two cents on the groups I did see...
Plainfield: I've seen you guys progress astoundingly since 2003. It's evident you guys are growing stronger every year. The best word to describe your show this year is probably "good". I say that because you lacked consistency in vocals, your visuals were impressive but slightly overkill, and the song selection, in my humble opinion, was just a bit scattered. Your number about Peter the Rabbit was fun, but it went on far too long. I did love the energy and clarity of text you had, though. Your ballad was definitely the highest point of your show. The intonation and dynamic contrast you had was impressive, and it showed the judges you know how to sing properly. Now, to your closer... Loving Thoroughly Modern Millie as much as I do, I'm probably a little biased, but I have to say that I wasn't in love with the arrangement. It seemed lower than the original key, and because of this, some harmonies toward the end sounded sort of skewed. Your choreography was nice, but I believe cutting some of it to ensure text clarity and intonation would be wise. I liked the soloist, though...she was good.
Overall, I'd say you did a great job! It's nice to see an ensemble progress in ability as you guys have done.
North Central: Are there words to describe your talent? Dear Lord, you guys are in another leauge all together. Honestly. The innovation and power within your show is unbelievable. Every single soloist was outstanding and flawless. I could go on for days about the talent you guys have, but I think I'd be wasting my time, as I'm sure you're already aware of it. Congratulations in having the best show I've seen in years (which was, ironically enough, from your choir as well). You all should be proud of the work you do, because you had the audience's attention every moment you were onstage - something not many choir's can boast.
Last, but not least, I'd like to congratulate my fellow ZCHS Chamber Choir members! Second place for our first competition in years, wow...pretty awesome.
Thanks to all the North Central parents and students for an amazing and well-run competition.
The only problem in my opinion with the ISSMA contests is not the scoring, But the judges. I definately think there needs to be a better way to get judges for these competitions. The idea is that they use the same scoresheet so that In theory every contest is judged the same. but with judges being objective, and having different taste, scores will change with every panel.
Issma should hire a panel of judges agreed on by the directors in the district, to judge all the qualifiers (Ben Davis, Pike, North Central, Lawrence Central) and State. I believe those are all the qualifiers aren't they?
I totally agree. I think if the ISSMA scoring sheet is used, then the judges should be "ISSMA certified". Then everything would be completely even across the board and maybe everyone would stop complaining. And, you are right, no one complains about the ISSMA scoring when they do well or when the group they expect to make finals, makes finals. Even non-ISSMA judging can put a typically "good" group low on the list, due to DQs and prop issues and microphone issues (ex. LafJeff was in 4th at Anderson, but DQed to 6th because they didn't clean their confetti off the stage).
And just so everyone knows: a name can only get you so far. Just because you are typically good doesn't mean you are good every year, but you can improve.
And playing to an earlier comment about LC getting best combo so that should have had them in finals, best combo is purely the band. A group could have the worst show ever (not talking about LC, they have a cute show) and a phenomenal band, so best combo is in no way something that plays into whether or not they go into finals. Also, having practically skin toned dresses is not exciting, when you see those dresses walk out onto the stage, you don't get excited, you don't wonder "oooh what are they gonna do in those". So as much as costume shouldn't affect scoring, the dresses were boring which may have made LCs show visually boring to them. I will say that LC hands down, has the best guys numbers...every year.
I just want to say how proud I am of New Dimension...we were 9th at the LC comp and we worked our brains out trying to pull this show together...it was some tough competition for sure man...a very distinguished choir director, Eric Van Cleave, told us that when first runner up is called and you hear your names for GC's you don't hear a thing...I'm pretty sure all of New D heard that when we were called for finals haha!...GOOD JOB TO EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!
CSDAD's comment about how the best combo award used to be an indicator of the overall success of the show is an interesting one. As I look at the ISSMA sheet and ponder how I would improve it, I've decided my main issue with the system is that a LOT of factors like that are not taken into account. The sheet focuses very heavily on execution, and to some extent the artistry of that execution. (Though I would argue that the "artistry" part of the sheet is still, in many ways, about "correct" execution.) The visual and vocal sheets do not address difficulty of material, both and vocal and visual to my liking, but that's probably a topic for another post.
What seems to be missing from the ISSMA system is some component of overall artistic effectiveness. This would take into account all those things that lend a hand in making the show a success: programming and song selection, show design, costuming, effectiveness of the instrumental ensemble, entertainment value and audience appeal, to name a few. I think what I'm advocating is a third category, a General Effect sheet, just like our friends in the marching band world have. GE would reward the groups who just can really put a great show out there. I also think it would encourage show choirs to take chances and think of new ways to express themselves instead of getting caught up in whatever formula they ascribe to.
I'm very curious to hear the thoughts of others on this topic....
I also think that if ISSMA wants to use a standardized scoring sheet, they have to figure out a way to more effectively standardize the judges. The hour-before orientation session just doesn't really cut it. At some point, ISSMA needs to require judges to become "ISSMA certified judges." Again, I'm pretty sure this is the case for marching band. (Let's face it, the band nerds are more OCD and freakishly organized than us choir nerds. We should take some cues from them in these matters. ;) I realize the expense to do this would be significant, and I also realize that directors don't want to be adjudicated by the same small pool of individuals every week. Still, requiring these qualifications would keep mistakes like the wrong-headed Lawrence Central slight last evening from happening.
North Central Metropolitan Interscholastic Conference Choral Competition 2008
Way to go Plainfield! Your show was outstanding. I am confident you guys will take the constructive information given from the NC judges and online critics and work more magic over the next week! As always, I am totally amazed by the amount of talent in each group. I would NOT like to have the job of deciding the winners....I think all show choir kids are winners! GO Ptown! 
