QUOTE(DePereJamGirl @ Feb 5 2008, 04:05 PM) 416618
I totally agree with the above statement. its time to move on and start worrying about competitions to come. New London is over, its done, we(being depere) got what place we deserved no matter who was judging. Please let's put this in the past and worry about other things. The aftermath of a competition really isn't that important especially coming from people that weren't even there.
I totally agree with the above statement. its time to move on and start worrying about competitions to come. New London is over, its done, we(being depere) got what place we deserved no matter who was judging. Please let's put this in the past and worry about other things. The aftermath of a competition really isn't that important especially coming from people that weren't even there.
To Holmen: I know you guys are all disapointed that you didn't get into finals on Saturday but obviously you guys just didn't have something that the judges were looking for. Thats just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes, you guys got into finals at Viterbo for the past 2 or 3 years and you are consistantly getting into finals at the other places you compete at. Like I said early, everyone has their time to shine, and i guess your time to shine was not last weekend. Work hard this week and be ready for Logan on Saturday, it's not the end of the world.
In regards to this comment and all others, I think we all need to just realize this is ONE competition. Although my prior posts may have sounded like whinning, I did not intend for them to be heard that way. We realized we were obviously lacking something and that is something that many people have problems excepting. It wasn't a faulty judge, it wasnt anything like that. It was our performance. By pointing examples of times things didn't go your way (at Viterbo), it's making you just as guitly Everyone just needs to remember to be considerate of others and remember that people do get offended when people are posting about their group.
With that asside, I honetly had a really good time at this competition. I want you all to know that we are not whinning, complaing, or blamming anything on anyone else. Sorry for all this mass drama.
GOOD LUCK EVERYONE IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS OF COMPETITION!!
I personally think that if you have a groups choreographer judging at a competition they are at that the choreographer would be tougher on his/her group because he/she knows what the show is supposed to be like and what those students are capable of achieving.
I can see where people would have a problem if that group would get placed higher than where they should've but in the case at New London, Rob placed the group in 5th place, it's not like he placed them in 1st. I don't see what the big deal is. Let De Pere have their moment and enjoy getting into finals, everyone has their turn at finals.
If a judge is harder on a group, isn't that still unfair? Aren't results still being skewed?
Also, I think it should be noted that not one person has said DePere was undeserving of their placements, nor has anyone said that Rob was unfair.
Above you will find the results from last year at Grand River. Yes the ranking at the bottom are a side note. As the person who was with the judges all day long taking their scores and giving them to the person to put in the computer all judges were scoreing fairly. There were a couple of judges yes that had given some low score, but they were given low score to everybody so they were consistant in there scoring.
to me it still doesn't add up right.
but whatever, we placed how the points showed,
whether they were correct or not and tabulated correct, who knows.
Judging was done by scoring and adding up the totals. The rankings above is how the judges totals had each group.
Above you will find the results from last year at Grand River. Yes the ranking at the bottom are a side note. As the person who was with the judges all day long taking their scores and giving them to the person to put in the computer all judges were scoreing fairly. There were a couple of judges yes that had given some low score, but they were given low score to everybody so they were consistant in there scoring.
My bad after looking that the scores and looking at my master score sheet from last year I forgot the "other" portion of the score sheet so here it is:
Other
C.R. Ambassadors 218 out of 240
Chi Hi Harmonics 200.5
Midwest Magic 197
Midwest Express 193
NSP Northern Lights 186.5
C.R. Focalpoint 169
sorry to post again but i just thought,
even though the rankings weren't part of the scoring,
shouldn't there scores the judges gave reflected those rankings,
putting the groups in the order when ranked.
if you add each groups total up
the lowest score should win.
if you add up ours, we should have got third.
so the rankings were just a side note?
even though, the numbers on the individual score sheets reflected low scores from 2 judges. not only the rankings you showed but the total points.
I don't want you people to think I'm whining about not being in finals. I think that's the vib im giving. it's not that at all. i'm just saying we were mad. it's not the end of the world as some of you think im putting it that way. sorry.
i'd just like to say i'm from DePere. Seeing as this conflict all started with us and rob .
At our dance camp before NL he told us that he was juding and in NO way would he favor us. If anything it hurt us because he knew EXACTLY how good we could be. He told the admins. that he was our choreographer and they said it was fine. I understand I would probably be mad if there was a group that had their choreographer there but he ranked us as honest as possible. He's a great and honest guy.
Another instance was last year at the Grand River.
I actually found the ranking totals online,
and to be honest I think the wrong awards were given.
Adding them up purly showed an error.
Not due to one judge that I recall, just simply an error, a BIG one.
Quamdawg42,
Grand River wasn't ranked last year. Finals were scored that same way as the prelims, but the two critque judges and the solo comp judge was added to the scoring mix. I put the final scores up and then I put how each judge had each group from 1st to 6th.
I've read every post on this thread just now and I thought I would put in my own two cents worth. How many times do groups go to competitions where there is a choreographer judging who has worked with at least one of the groups there? When I was in high school I know there was at least one competition that we would go to that April James would judge at, now out of my 4 years in show choir and going to this competition, we made it into finals once, I personally think that if you have a groups choreographer judging at a competition they are at that the choreographer would be tougher on his/her group because he/she knows what the show is supposed to be like and what those students are capable of achieving.
I can see where people would have a problem if that group would get placed higher than where they should've but in the case at New London, Rob placed the group in 5th place, it's not like he placed them in 1st. I don't see what the big deal is. Let De Pere have their moment and enjoy getting into finals, everyone has their turn at finals.
To Holmen: I know you guys are all disapointed that you didn't get into finals on Saturday but obviously you guys just didn't have something that the judges were looking for. Thats just the way the cookie crumbles sometimes, you guys got into finals at Viterbo for the past 2 or 3 years and you are consistantly getting into finals at the other places you compete at. Like I said early, everyone has their time to shine, and i guess your time to shine was not last weekend. Work hard this week and be ready for Logan on Saturday, it's not the end of the world.
Congratulations to De Pere for finals, as well as all the other groups, it was a fun competition to watch, and I look forward to the coming years for this competition, i think it could turn out to be a really good one in the future! Remember, bigger schools majority of the time have an easier time getting judges, small schools, have a smaller budget and have a harder time getting judges.
About the ranking system: My roommate and I both are past members of Mayville and Brodhead and we both say that there are good and bad things about the ranking system. But if you look at it this way, the groups that get the higher placements are obviously the groups that stuck out in their mind. A school is going to do the finals placements/scoring the way they want to, so really is it doing us any good to complain about it?
Final note: Congratulations to everyone on Saturday and good luck in the future. You guys are all fun to watch!
Well then maybe we were lucky with the first after day rounds.
But our finals performance was by far better then the day.
After the day, we didn't have a good critique and were in 1st.
The reason we went to 4th was because of 1 judge.
I'm not saying we deserved 1st, but isin't it shaddy when we move down 3 spots?!
But you are forgetting other groups... From prelims to finals, Milton stepped up their game the largest out of any group. If I remember right, they were 5th, and then shot to 2nd claiming the Best Choreography award. So it may have been that other groups performed even better.
I actually felt like the finals scores at Logan last year were more correct than the day round scores. I know others did as well too.
Well then maybe we were lucky with the first after day rounds.
But our finals performance was by far better then the day.
After the day, we didn't have a good critique and were in 1st.
The reason we went to 4th was because of 1 judge.
I'm not saying we deserved 1st, but isin't it shaddy when we move down 3 spots?!
I agree with the above post, saying rankings a really a bad way to score. I think many groups can be sunk out of luck because say 1 or 2 judges don't like them. it happened to MWE twice last year.
At Logan after day rounds, we were in 1st place
2 judges added in at night, 1 didn't care for us much, and put us in 6th place.
I don't recall all the numbers, but they were all a 3 or above, other then the one 6.
and because of that score, we got 4th.
Another instance was last year at the Grand River.
I actually found the ranking totals online,
and to be honest I think the wrong awards were given.
Adding them up purly showed an error.
Not due to one judge that I recall, just simply an error, a BIG one.
I actually felt like the finals scores at Logan last year were more correct than the day round scores. I know others did as well too. (and that's saying something since the group I work with moved down a spot from prelims to finals)
I agree with singers above post, saying ranking is a really a bad way to score finals. I think many groups can be sunk out of luck because say 1 or 2 judges don't like them. it happened to MWE twice last year.
At Logan after day rounds, we were in 1st place
2 judges added in at night, 1 didn't care for us much, and put us in 6th place.
I don't recall all the numbers, but they were all a 3 or above, other then the one 6.
and because of that score, we got 4th.
Another instance was last year at the Grand River.
I actually found the ranking totals online,
and to be honest I think the wrong awards were given.
Adding them up purly showed an error.
Not due to one judge that I recall, just simply an error, a BIG one.
To both Logan and Grand River, I am not trying to single your judges out at all, I'm just simply stating times when errors occured because of one judge.
This competition obviosuly was upseting for us not making finals, and we are ready to work hard this week to fix our show for Logan this coming weekend.
I just have one quick quesiton for other school's who saw scores after day rounds.
There were 3 judges during the day rounds, 2 of them giving us both 8,9, and 10 is everything.
But one judge gave us all 5,6, and 7's. This happened to both our groups from Holmen.
Was it simply just a tougher judge who scored everyone low,
Or was he just not liking either of our groups?
Anyone have any idea?
I also just have one other random judging quesiton.
Many competitions have a "other" section in there scoring.
Does that have any critera for the area, or is it simply to put there opinon in on the scoring?
It definatly seems shaddy to have an "other" section. Is it just me?
That is what competition is about. It is all about perspective. I think everyone is getting too excited
I personally have not been to a competition where a person involved with a show choir has obviously put them ahead of another group. Does it happen? Im sure somewhere it has and that is wrong. How to stop it? In the perfect world Ana is right. It should be avoided. When you bring up the schools you mentioned and how they went out of their way to avoid it, I would love to compare the amount paid to, for instance, the Onalaska judges versus to the New London judges. My guess is New London's budget is not on the same scale as many of the schools mentioned and would have a harder time to bring in the same judges. Just a guess, I don't know. We are talking about schools that have a show choir budget that rival what some of the teachers get paid! That is great for them but I would hate to have what is viewed as some of the "smaller" competitions go away because a school can't get judges. Ultimately, if a judge shows an obvious bias, they will not be judging long. Lord knows that news would travel faster than a peel off on this website " border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />
No one is getting too excited- they're just debating a topic that has been a hot button issue for years, and will continue to be! I do have to ask out of curiousity, have you run into alliances or pacts?
As to the avoidance issue, it doesn't necessarily have to do with budgets or how much judges are paid- it's as simple as not hiavng the judge in question not judge finals, or work as the critique judge, and never score. They can sit back and relax- and there aren't any conflicts being ignored.
show choir/wrestling mom, I have to say that your post seems conflicted. The tone certainly makes it sound like you have a problem with what happened two years ago at a competition to your group- yet, you're okay with this situation because you know Rob personally. Do you know the judge from two years ago, and know that she is NOT a person of integrity and fairness?
New London Center Stage Invitational 2008
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