Everyone doesn't like their performance times at one time or another, but you've got to do the best with what you get and prove to everyone that the time doesn't matter. But, as I understand it, LAST YEAR at the WVMEA convention, THE DIRECTORS VOTED on and approved that if you don't you 3-4 tier riser configuration then you must perform first. It has to do with the time it takes to totally tear down the stage between a choir that uses 3 tier risers, then one that has a funky configuration, then back to one with 3 tiers. So if a director chose to use a "creative" design, they knew the rules and what it would mean at States. Also, the host school has ALWAYS performed last at states just because of all the duties and things involved with hosting a competition--they don't have time to stop working in the middle of the day to get dressed, warmup, perform, change back, then go back to hosting. It is just not possible for them to perform at any other time.
Just another pet peave of mine---choirs that don't wear bodysuits under their costumes. If you've ever worked back stage and had girls strip down to nothing, you'd know what I mean. There are adult men (and women) working back stage!!! Please, Please, Please wear bodysuits!!!!!
lol then nothing against SA, because i love them but they have a mixed riser configuration and they are in the afternoon? i just think the time slots are jipped at states anyway. you all can get people to call me, say i'm being unethical or whatever, but this is an opinionated website. ; )
While I certainly agree about female choir members not being completely naked during costume changes (especially when they are visible to someone outside the dressing area!), I've honestly never heard of a choir having its girls wear full bodysuits. I've only ever seen choirs wear 'cheaters' (or 'bloomers' or whatever else you want to call them- the giant fake cheerleading undergarments), never full-body anything. Just an interesting discovery.
i actually think she means the ones ur talkin about..the lil half body suits that cover ur torso..thats wat most girls have
While I certainly agree about female choir members not being completely naked during costume changes (especially when they are visible to someone outside the dressing area!), I've honestly never heard of a choir having its girls wear full bodysuits. I've only ever seen choirs wear 'cheaters' (or 'bloomers' or whatever else you want to call them- the giant fake cheerleading undergarments), never full-body anything. Just an interesting discovery.
While the members of the Music Educators Association did vote on the riser issue, it really doesn't apply this year since the high school and middle school competitions are being held together. The high schools that don't use straight riser configuration are still between middle schools that do use straight risers or don't use any risers at all. That means the risers will still have to be redone or moved completely out of the way. How does this save any time? I have helped with the WVMEA Middle School competition for two years and it really does not take that much time to move risers around if you have a good "dad" crew to help. Schools should not be punished because they have a more creative setup and don't use the three across-three deep setup.
I completely agree with you on the bodysuit issue. Girls do need to wear them. Not only do the adults working backstage not need to see that, but the male members of their choir and band don't need to be exposed to that either.
i might be mistaken, but i think that when they made that rule about the risers it was just for the high schools and not the middle schools..i may be wrong so dont hold that against me, but im pretty sure thats where it came into effect, so i guess it doesnt really matter when the middle schoolers time slots are since it just effects the high school...
again, im not 100% sure on that, so don't hold it against me...if somebody can find that out for sure if thats right, then it definitely wouldnt matter about the middle schoolers
I can't help but laugh at these conspiracy theories. To suggest that Cabell Midland handpicked where everyone went is absurd. Mrs. Riedel is a strong advocate for fairness, because remember that we had to work our way to the "top" just like everyone else! I guess the better you get, the more of a target you become. Not to mention it would be almost impossible to get away with setting up states. I think the only reason some people *ahem tylerkirk_nitro* is suggesting that Riedel and Kincaid are working together is becaues they are stiff comeptition. I also think that if Nitro had been randomly placed in the afternoon, these same people wouldn't be coming up with any crazy theories.
The only reason I react so strongly to these accusations is because I remember a few years ago when we were still working our way through the ranks, and we had to perform earlier in the day. We didn't complain, it is just the way things unfold sometimes. I understand that there are choirs that are posing new threats for the top 4-5 spots, and if they are good enough to get there, it shouldn't matter what time slot they have.
Everyone doesn't like their performance times at one time or another, but you've got to do the best with what you get and prove to everyone that the time doesn't matter. But, as I understand it, LAST YEAR at the WVMEA convention, THE DIRECTORS VOTED on and approved that if you don't you 3-4 tier riser configuration then you must perform first. It has to do with the time it takes to totally tear down the stage between a choir that uses 3 tier risers, then one that has a funky configuration, then back to one with 3 tiers. So if a director chose to use a "creative" design, they knew the rules and what it would mean at States. Also, the host school has ALWAYS performed last at states just because of all the duties and things involved with hosting a competition--they don't have time to stop working in the middle of the day to get dressed, warmup, perform, change back, then go back to hosting. It is just not possible for them to perform at any other time.
Just another pet peave of mine---choirs that don't wear bodysuits under their costumes. If you've ever worked back stage and had girls strip down to nothing, you'd know what I mean. There are adult men (and women) working back stage!!! Please, Please, Please wear bodysuits!!!!!
While the members of the Music Educators Association did vote on the riser issue, it really doesn't apply this year since the high school and middle school competitions are being held together. The high schools that don't use straight riser configuration are still between middle schools that do use straight risers or don't use any risers at all. That means the risers will still have to be redone or moved completely out of the way. How does this save any time? I have helped with the WVMEA Middle School competition for two years and it really does not take that much time to move risers around if you have a good "dad" crew to help. Schools should not be punished because they have a more creative setup and don't use the three across-three deep setup.
I completely agree with you on the bodysuit issue. Girls do need to wear them. Not only do the adults working backstage not need to see that, but the male members of their choir and band don't need to be exposed to that either.
Everyone doesn't like their performance times at one time or another, but you've got to do the best with what you get and prove to everyone that the time doesn't matter. But, as I understand it, LAST YEAR at the WVMEA convention, THE DIRECTORS VOTED on and approved that if you don't you 3-4 tier riser configuration then you must perform first. It has to do with the time it takes to totally tear down the stage between a choir that uses 3 tier risers, then one that has a funky configuration, then back to one with 3 tiers. So if a director chose to use a "creative" design, they knew the rules and what it would mean at States. Also, the host school has ALWAYS performed last at states just because of all the duties and things involved with hosting a competition--they don't have time to stop working in the middle of the day to get dressed, warmup, perform, change back, then go back to hosting. It is just not possible for them to perform at any other time.
Just another pet peave of mine---choirs that don't wear bodysuits under their costumes. If you've ever worked back stage and had girls strip down to nothing, you'd know what I mean. There are adult men (and women) working back stage!!! Please, Please, Please wear bodysuits!!!!!
I agree that judges should have a background in fine arts. However, they do not have to be a director of a show choir to know what is what. A person that has been trained in dance and has many years experience in very qualified to be the choreography judge. Someone that has gone to school to receive a degree in choral music and has been using that training is qualified to be the vocal judge. However, they don't have to be a show choir director to know if the dancing is on or if the intonation of the choir is right. (If you know what the Appalachian Childrens Chorus is then you know that Selena Midkiff would be more than qualified to be a vocal judge. She has never directed a show choir in her life, but I can promise you that her vocal training is extensive.)
Also, if you have a judge coming that already thinks one group is better that another, then you put everyone else at a disadvantage. Choirs should be judged on the show they give that day, not their previous shows or reputation. Any choir can have an off day or any choir can put on that once in a lifetime show. I have no problem with repeat judges either as long as they come into the competiton with an open mind and judge everyone fairly.
I was soooo in A.C.C. Loved every minute of it!! Mrs.Midkiff is absolute amazing!
hmmm. I wouldnt be surprised if something like this would happen, i just don't see nitro being up that far. no offense. I could see St. Albans, Martinsburg, or Cabell Midland all in 1Runner Up position, but i dont think thatll happen with Nitro. but maybe u can prove me wrong
lol who are you?
first off, i think it is really funny when people make unassociated names on showchoir.com to voice their opinions because they don't have the guts to post what school they are from, and even their name. if you can't do that then you have no reason to get on here and make predictions. if you are a 'wv spectator', which makes me believe you are a show choir junkie that just goes around and watches choirs, and in my opinion i think you have a choir that you are mainly for. so i think it'd be wise if you say who you are rather than go and make predicitions like that.
secondly, i would like to express my feelings on WVMEA state competition this year. obviously, people were hearing the rumor that Nitro is not coming to states because of their time slot. well we are attending and i hope we do our best. and in my mind, i know we will. i just think it is kind of funny the way we were placed earlier in the day. some people argue that it is at random, but i beg to differ. it is really awkward that cabell midland and poca are performing last in the day, when everyone knows they are both affiliated with joseph kincaid and mrs riedel from cabell midland. usually, it is tradition to put the schools who won in the previous year, to go last, because they deserve it. this would be a tie between st. albans and hurricane. hurricane is about 4 choirs from the last spot if i'm not mistaken and st. albans is around 1:30. i don't understand the rule of being random at states if the host school gets to perform last. it just doesn't seem fair at all. hurricane and st. albans deserve those last spots because they were the best last year.
third, yes i'm from nitro obviously and i am kind of aggravated that we are performing before noon. it is kind of weird that we've beaten cabell midland twice and they beat us once, so they put us down early so they have no threat of us beating them? that is what it looks like to me and MANY other choir members that are not just from nitro. we've worked so hard this year to become the best that we can be and its just frustrating to have to perform so early, when you know .. everyone's energy isn't on and poppin that early on a saturday afternoon. we know that some choirs will probably out score us this day because of THEIR time slots. a little biast or as i heard someone say, some home cookin over there in cabell midland.
good luck to hurricane & st. albans
i hope the judges will be 'on circuit' and place us all where we deserve
I agree that judges should have a background in fine arts. However, they do not have to be a director of a show choir to know what is what. A person that has been trained in dance and has many years experience in very qualified to be the choreography judge. Someone that has gone to school to receive a degree in choral music and has been using that training is qualified to be the vocal judge. However, they don't have to be a show choir director to know if the dancing is on or if the intonation of the choir is right. (If you know what the Appalachian Childrens Chorus is then you know that Selena Midkiff would be more than qualified to be a vocal judge. She has never directed a show choir in her life, but I can promise you that her vocal training is extensive.)
Also, if you have a judge coming that already thinks one group is better that another, then you put everyone else at a disadvantage. Choirs should be judged on the show they give that day, not their previous shows or reputation. Any choir can have an off day or any choir can put on that once in a lifetime show. I have no problem with repeat judges either as long as they come into the competiton with an open mind and judge everyone fairly.
i think u make a good point...i dont think it should matter that much if they got judges who were experts in vocals or experts in dancing/choreography...my only thing would be to let them judge ONLY choreo or vocals, whicever they know...then i think that would be all fine and dandy
secondly...i tend to disagree a little bit about your second point...i know that some judges may do that, but for the majority most dont...poca got completetly different scores from one judge from the first time they saw poca, so they definitely didnt keep the same opinions...yea it happens but i think it will always happen..and i kinda think that its hard 2 find judges who havent really seen any of the groups at least once during the year 2
I don't think Mr. Crandall was at Teays Valley, Michael. You are thinking of the other judge from Poca's competition.... his last name begins with "P" but I cannot remember what it is.
QUOTE(fischerclassix06 @ Feb 27 2007, 12:10 AM) 388955
First i think that having qualified judges that are "in the circut" is a very important thing. The NFL woudn't use a soccer ref to officiate a game, just becuase he is a sports ref...nor should we as show choirs just accept any person who has affiliation with music as a judge. Not saying anything about competitons, just that we do need real show choir judges.
Secondly, there are many judges that we have seen at more than one competiton. I know Crandall, for example, was at poca and then we saw him again at Teays Valley a few weeks ago. And he had good things to say on both tapes, and if the real reason behind show choir is to provide entertainment and be educated in music performance then his tapes have definately helped improve the group. So i don't really see a problem with repeat judges...as long as they are "on the circut" lol
I don't think Mr. Crandall was at Teays Valley, Michael. You are thinking of the other judge from Poca's competition.... his last name begins with "P" but I cannot remember what it is.
QUOTE(fischerclassix06 @ Feb 26 2007, 09:10 PM) 388955
First i think that having qualified judges that are "in the circut" is a very important thing. The NFL woudn't use a soccer ref to officiate a game, just becuase he is a sports ref...nor should we as show choirs just accept any person who has affiliation with music as a judge. Not saying anything about competitons, just that we do need real show choir judges.
Secondly, there are many judges that we have seen at more than one competiton. I know Crandall, for example, was at poca and then we saw him again at Teays Valley a few weeks ago. And he had good things to say on both tapes, and if the real reason behind show choir is to provide entertainment and be educated in music performance then his tapes have definately helped improve the group. So i don't really see a problem with repeat judges...as long as they are "on the circut" lol
I agree that judges should have a background in fine arts. However, they do not have to be a director of a show choir to know what is what. A person that has been trained in dance and has many years experience in very qualified to be the choreography judge. Someone that has gone to school to receive a degree in choral music and has been using that training is qualified to be the vocal judge. However, they don't have to be a show choir director to know if the dancing is on or if the intonation of the choir is right. (If you know what the Appalachian Childrens Chorus is then you know that Selena Midkiff would be more than qualified to be a vocal judge. She has never directed a show choir in her life, but I can promise you that her vocal training is extensive.)
Also, if you have a judge coming that already thinks one group is better that another, then you put everyone else at a disadvantage. Choirs should be judged on the show they give that day, not their previous shows or reputation. Any choir can have an off day or any choir can put on that once in a lifetime show. I have no problem with repeat judges either as long as they come into the competiton with an open mind and judge everyone fairly.
QUOTE(fischerclassix06 @ Feb 26 2007, 09:10 PM) 388955
First i think that having qualified judges that are "in the circut" is a very important thing. The NFL woudn't use a soccer ref to officiate a game, just becuase he is a sports ref...nor should we as show choirs just accept any person who has affiliation with music as a judge. Not saying anything about competitons, just that we do need real show choir judges.
Secondly, there are many judges that we have seen at more than one competiton. I know Crandall, for example, was at poca and then we saw him again at Teays Valley a few weeks ago. And he had good things to say on both tapes, and if the real reason behind show choir is to provide entertainment and be educated in music performance then his tapes have definately helped improve the group. So i don't really see a problem with repeat judges...as long as they are "on the circut" lol
yeah, groups seeing repeat judges isn't that new. Every year there always seemed to be one judge that fallowed us everywhere. Plus in the case of Crandall, he's judged States in the past(2005 being the most recent)..he knows WV show choir. He also judged at Twinsburg this past weekend, so this would be his 3rd time seeing Hurricane this season.
Go back and check Shayne's comments on the judges. (I think it is under the Capital VIP topic.) However, you can make sure all the judges will be "in the circuit".
QUOTE(dunbarmamma @ Feb 26 2007, 10:39 PM) 388865
A judge that has already judged most groups at Poca will be a judge at WVMEA's? When and how are the judges selected?
First i think that having qualified judges that are "in the circut" is a very important thing. The NFL woudn't use a soccer ref to officiate a game, just becuase he is a sports ref...nor should we as show choirs just accept any person who has affiliation with music as a judge. Not saying anything about competitons, just that we do need real show choir judges.
Secondly, there are many judges that we have seen at more than one competiton. I know Crandall, for example, was at poca and then we saw him again at Teays Valley a few weeks ago. And he had good things to say on both tapes, and if the real reason behind show choir is to provide entertainment and be educated in music performance then his tapes have definately helped improve the group. So i don't really see a problem with repeat judges...as long as they are "on the circut" lol
West Virginia State Show Choir Festival 2007
