I believe SCN normally does Uni-voice on the Thursday night with no finals, one and done. Then prelims for mixed are on Friday night with finals on Saturday morning.
Thanks! I didn't even realize the performance times had been posted
It would feel a little weird to me to leave the final performance for the day and have it still be daylight out. I'm so used to loading the bus in the dead of night/early morning.
It is slightly weird, for sure. Much weirder is performing that early in the morning, as a varsity choir. Most top-tier choirs are used to performing mid-afternoon at the earliest. I have definitely noticed a lot of tired-sounding choirs performing at 8 or 9 AM. The flip-side is you get to have the WHOLE rest of your day after you perform. You can perform and find food afterwards, which is sometimes IMPOSSIBLE on regular competition days.
They do this because the Grand Ole Opry still has performances at night. So you can get tickets for those and see professional performers in the same space. That can be super cool!
Some final thoughts before this contest (will later know/decide whether I am attending this event and how much I will be present for)...
1. Here is what placements would look like based on the Barstool's Rankings. Note that this takes into account the drop for North Central after ISSMA based on how they calculate their rankings.
1. Homewood
2. Hastings
3. Linn Marr
4. Findlay
5. Oak Mountain
6. Mt. Zion
2. My final predictions, which are based more on gut feeling than how I would actually score the choirs. It's fun and interesting to see how I would place certain groups, but this contest will ultimately be so close among many talented groups that I would likely score everything differently based on their live performances in Nashville anyways. Also, I think Oak Mountain may be a tad underrated coming in, but we'll know on Friday. Leaving out North Central doesn't sit well with me after being wrong about them in 2018. However, the nature of this contest (and any contest with this caliber of groups) is that any group could be in any place, and we all should be thankful that our task is to enjoy the performances instead of the incredibly difficult task of deciding their placements.
1. Linn Marr (sweep)
2. Homewood
3. Findlay
4. Hastings
5. Mt. Zion
6. Oak Mountain
3. Does anyone know who's on the judging panel? So far I know of Dave Fehr and Steve Woodin, but don't know any of the others.
I think it's interesting because it is one of the closest ways we can get to an objective show choir ranking. But the nature of show choir is subjective, so barstool ranking aren't really accurate.
That I don’t know, but it’s the only active website where I can follow their ranking methodology easily. Showing that is meant to put it to the test at a highly competitive event and see what happens, although we all probably know what will happen.
I looked at it and saw Fishers Sound ranked 18th in Single Gender while schools they've beaten are ranked higher...the way barstool scores for rankings makes little sense. It doesn't seem to take into account level of comp schools are performing against. I wouldn't use it at all to gage where a program ranks. Plainfield is a fine Single Gender program, but 2nd?
That’s the point. Petal was first going into HOA Orlando, Homewood ranked higher than every group in Indianapolis, etc. because there isn’t a way to quantify how good a group is based on how they place in their regional circuit. At least not one that can overcome having questionable results.
their rankings are useless...there isn't really a way to rank these school nationally against each other....but just taking GC and captions at face value doesn't work. The Fishers Sound example shows this...there's NO WAY, literally, they are behind Plainfield, Noblesville, Carroll, Pendleton Heights and Avon...but somehow Barstool has them ranked lower.
It would be great to have some way to get a system in place, but I don't see how that's possible.
I wouldn't call Barstool rankings useless... they're a fun piece using one particular scoring method to compare choirs. Emphasis on fun. They're not endorsed by anybody. I think that national rankings are a noble endeavor that take a lot of time and while of course they're not going to be perfect, it's cool to see how things move over the course of the season and the like. And as for Fishers, didn't they just finish behind Plainfield at ISSMA this past weekend?
Fishers Sound (Single Gender) was the topic and they won ISSMA this week....You are correct this should be a fun discussion and it's all wildly subjective, but, the problem with Barstool scoring is not taking into account the level of competition with some of these wins....Blindly giving points to GC and captions when winning smaller comps makes no sense....I think it's understood that regionally there are comps more competitive than others....some schools go to less competitive sites so they can do well and avoid the tougher comps.
You’re thinking of Electrum, their mixed group. Sound just took home the state championship at ISSMA finals. But I agree that any ranking system shouldn’t be taken that seriously. Obviously there is no way anyone could possibly accurately rank every group in the country against one another, and Barstool isn’t claiming that their rankings are accurate or correct. Using the criteria they have laid out, they’re just a fun exercise in comparison. They are not that deep lol
I wasn't even aware they were a thing until jdcritt post mentioned it...I do wish there was a better way to get these top school together for comps though...does make for fun discussions now that the season is finished. cheers to all.
FAME used to be the way back in my day. Even before my time, it was where Clinton vs. John Burroughs started. They held a bunch of regional events, and then a national event. However, the regional events weren’t in great locations. For example, Orlando is near zero show choirs because Florida is a concert choir state. If you wanted to have that setup, it would be ideal to do regionals in these locations:
Tuscaloosa, AL (Southern circuit)
Los Angeles, CA (California circuit)
Des Moines, IA (Iowa MSA circuit)
Indianapolis, IN (Indy circuit)
Chicago, IL (Midwest circuit)
Columbus, OH (Ohio circuit)
Richmond, VA (Lower East circuit)
Boston, MA (Upper East circuit)
Dallas, TX (Texas circuit)
Nationals maybe in Nashville or rotating. You’d have to find a place where all of the finalists can reasonably get to for performance — the Hollywood choirs have more money than the Southern choirs, etc.
There are starting to be a few late February comps in CA, but the real kickoff to the SoCal comp circuit is Burbank Blast, which is always the first weekend of March. It's rare for the big 3 (Burbank, Burroughs, Los Al) to compete before then because they don't even start working on their comp sets until very late in the fall semester. The last big events on the CA circuit are the Burroughs Music Showcase and the Oceanside Sound-Off, which are in mid-to-late April.
As jdcritt mentioned, it's nearly impossible to judge groups on a national level as many groups do not compete against each other consistently enough between different regions. Instead, I would love if more people from each distinct circuit ranked the groups within that circuit, so we could have better context when we reached these national events at which groups are dominating their respective circuits. Experts of each circuit would give more context to whether a group with many GCs really had a lot of competition on their way to those titles.
ISSMA rankings were jacked up. NC beat them all in competitions this year except for Carmel, Center Grove and Zionsville. The ISSMA rules need to changed but the state board refuses.
Central got jacked up too, no way y’all were 8th. I do not understand the state rules. All were good but something in the judging was waaayyy off, imo.
hello everyone - im just here to be a lil chaotic. how y’all doing? I’ll be making my predictions tomorrow when I get home from my trip. follow me on instagram @thebradleydavis I post silly show choir content ALL the time.
What exactly is the story on ISSMA? I’ve read through the comments a few times, but I’m hardly an expert on Indiana show choir. I was shocked to see North Central as low as they were.
Also of note, I will be in Nashville… when I decide that I’m responsible enough to book my hotel for the weekend. Which will probably be thirty minutes before I drive up there. And that’s more responsible than I usually am with these things.
Random question: is it possible to make one of these threads of replies cover multiple pages or does it make one page really long? This has been Joey’s brain at 1AM.
Dear Joey’s brain: Indiana State School Music Association. It’s the state government sanctioned body for school music programs in the state of Indiana.
Show Choir Nationals 2023
