There have been many things said to the tone of, "why is there so much negativity towards Findlay...," and, "Why is there so much bickering in this forum?"
The answer is this...
It was a poor competition... I hate saying this, but Findlay did not deserve what they got... If they would have finished second, like they should have...then there would not be this much negativity.
I don't care who the judges were, i don't care how much training they have, I don't care that it is all "subjective", I don't care what STYLE of show you like.... Mt. Zion is a better show choir than Findlay.
mtz mom's are some of the nicest moms i have met EVER!!!! thanks so much for treating wash like a 2nd family and cheering for us when we didn't have many supporters to cheer us on. The extra cheering and smiling faces helped us perform to the max thanx.
WHAT ABOUT US MT ZION DAD'S???? LOL
Quoting the Mt. Zion dad...
You guys are all amazing!! All you parents...I've never seen moms and dads support their kids as much as you do! I was at Danville and all the parents especially you were very friendly. I sat in front of you during finals and realized whose dad you were afterwards from seeing your shirt...yes you're ALL so kind and that reflects on your kids!
QUOTE(juliofrommississippi @ Mar 29 2005, 10:32 PM)
i just want to say that people saying that i just prefer mtz's show to findlays show because it is more upbeat and the andy style is just fading.... that is BULL ****!!!!!!!
everyone knows that i am IN LOVE with andy's style of shows! jefferson is overall my favorite choir of all time!!!!!! i liked findlays show (considering half was jefferson last year) but i just didnt think it was the most well-done!
knowing that all of wash has grown up also watching jefferson and learning to respect and appreciate that style i really dont think that is the reason why we didnt think they should win. and i also know that every1 from wash LOVES mtz and didnt think that we would beat them for one second. at least i know i didnt think that. i think people are just getting confused about what we're saying which is very easy to do from colton and mine's style of writing.... w/e
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lol....I agree....I just didn't see it as the winning show of the day that's all. I'm impressed by any style of show as long as it's good. I thought Findlay was excellent...But i thought MTZ, Greece Athena, Mo, AND Diamond Bar were as well, and on top, I wouldn't oof had Findlay. Most importantly I just didn't think the scoring sheets were a smart way of organizing point totals, and if it was like any other comp ( I well thought out comp, unlike this one), it wouldn't of turned out the way it did in my opinion. But like Jay said, I ave a great deal of respect for that style of show, and I have no personal animosity towards Findlay, I love um to death and congrats on their GC, no matter how I personally feel about it!
i just want to say that people saying that i just prefer mtz's show to findlays show because it is more upbeat and the andy style is just fading.... that is BULL ****!!!!!!!
everyone knows that i am IN LOVE with andy's style of shows! jefferson is overall my favorite choir of all time!!!!!! i liked findlays show (considering half was jefferson last year) but i just didnt think it was the most well-done!
knowing that all of wash has grown up also watching jefferson and learning to respect and appreciate that style i really dont think that is the reason why we didnt think they should win. and i also know that every1 from wash LOVES mtz and didnt think that we would beat them for one second. at least i know i didnt think that. i think people are just getting confused about what we're saying which is very easy to do from colton and mine's style of writing.... w/e
p.s. i loved talking to the mtz people and even tho erica and i were weird (yet strangely attractive) they were so nice and yes they are the classiest people i have ever met. (but i still love GCS dont worry!)
So otherwise, they would be on here complaining and arguing and rubbing their caption awards in everyone's faces? Highly unlikely.
I don't know their group sentiment, but I'm not sure they'd want their fans to do those things for them. It reflects on everyone involved with Mt. Zion. And not positively.
They are not allowed to post on here so of course they are not saying anything. And Showquaah, noone twisted your words. You said Mt. Zion won best music not best vocals, and I was simply pointing out that they did however win Best Vocals.
Well congratulations to Showstoppers on apparently updating their caption awards so the midwest can decipher them.
I have one thought- for all of you who respect and admire Mt. Zion so much, why can't you take after them and drop the negativity and complaining. They can rest easy knowing they did well and won some captions, they aren't on here defending themselves. Why do you feel it's necessary to do it for them?
I'm not taking anything away from the quality of Mt. Zion's sound this year... they sang better than any group of Swingsations I've heard in many years. It really was quite a nice sound!
My comment about the pop/contemporary style was not a slam on Mt. Zion. It was directed to the MANY high schoolers on here who automatically discount the more classical style because it's not the bouncy, peppy stuff that has become standard in show choir.
I was defending Findlay since there were some very negative things said about their win. I personally think it's cool that two groups who are so amazing in such completely different ways competed in such an extremely tight race at Showstoppers. Clearly, the judges found many fine qualities in both shows!
That's all I'm saying... when two groups are both phenomenal, it has to go one way or the other. This was obviously Findlay's day to win, and no one should try to make excuses for a win that, judging by the closeness of the scores, was an all out battle.
I'm done now, because people are twisting words to suit their own arguments here (as usual). Congrats to Findlay and Mt. Zion again. You're amazing choirs with countless accolades, and your success will certainly continue in the future. I'm already looking forward to seeing your shows next year!
correct. In the end it doesn't matter who is more mature or poppy because competition is judged by personal opinion. Judges from different ages appreciate different styles, some like pop some like broadway and we ALL know that going into a competition. and some may say "how can mtz get best vocals?" easy the judges there on that day liked pop. competition isn't a fair judgement of a group just because mtz "lost" means that they were "not as good" as another group there but at anytime any different arrangement of groups could attend so yay mtz ya findlay good job improving your shows from the week before, because isn't that the only reason to do this? To show the crowd "watch how much we have improved." and if it's not, if you're only in show choir to win... well you need to rethink why you're in show choir.
Mt. Zion did win Best Vocals. They won best Visuals and Best Vocals. Showstoppers New York gave out Best Vocals, not best music, and Mt. Zion won best vocals. So as "poppy" or "hip-hop" some of you think Mt. Zion is, and as "mature" and "unstoppable" some of you think Findlay's vocals are, the truth is that those same "college music professors" gave Mt. Zion best vocals over Findlay.
First of all, Mt. Zion did not win Best Vocals, because Showstoppers doesn't give that award (or Best Choreography, for that matter). The awards that are offered are Best Music, Best Visual, and Best General Effect.
These categories encompass more than the standard awards, including flow of music, quality of arrangements, and so on for Best Music.
I agree the system is weird and somewhat antiquated, but Mt. Zion didn't get Best Vocals because it wasn't awarded to anyone at Showstoppers NYC.
Iloveshow choir, what is your question? I have read and reread your post, and I'm not sure what you're after. Feel free to PM me.
Congrats to both Findlay and Mt. Zion on the amazing seasons that they've enjoyed. Both were excellent this year, and Showstoppers must have been an awesome showdown to see!
I too love Faces. I love Summmmmertime and the cotton is growing Sorry I was singing and I do not know the words. I loved your show this year. You girls rock.
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awwwww thanks a bunch you're so sweet. And just a lil f.y.i it's Summmmertime and the livin is easy lol
wow i wish i could have gone to nyc and see the comp. Congrats Findly and MTZ you both amazing groups and I know you both preformed your hearts out. Now on a different note the very same thing happened to Faces when we went to Showstoppers in Orlando we won General Effect and Best Vocals and came in 1st runner up. I don't know it just seems weird to me when you win two out of the three caption awards and you still come in 2nd place
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I too love Faces. I love Summmmmertime and the cotton is growing Sorry I was singing and I do not know the words. I loved your show this year. You girls rock.
wow i wish i could have gone to nyc and see the comp. Congrats Findly and MTZ you both amazing groups and I know you both preformed your hearts out. Now on a different note the very same thing happened to Faces when we went to Showstoppers in Orlando we won General Effect and Best Vocals and came in 1st runner up. I don't know it just seems weird to me when you win two out of the three caption awards and you still come in 2nd place
Screw show...what about the vocals??!!
showquaah2005 Posted on: Mar 5 2005, 11:45 AM
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Findlay's "First Edition" has been vocally unstoppable for over twenty years. They very rarely walk away from a competition without taking home the award for Best Vocals, and they compete at many of the largest contests in the Midwest as well as throughout the nation.
Findlay's tone production, blend, balance, projection, and endurance are unmatched in my opinion. They also sing much more challenging literature than most groups in a way that seems almost effortless for them. The sound they produce is always well supported, very free, and incredibly sensitive to both stylistic concerns and general musical nuance.
So, without a doubt... Findlay
Hey Showquaah2005
This is your statement from earlier. What about vocals? I was not at the competition and I am not saying and could not say who deserves to win. I do think that is why we have judges. I would like to know and understand how a group can win best vocals and coreography and still come in 2nd place. I will say I do love the Mt. Zion show and in all fairness to all the groups that is why we have judges and if they judges we PAY pick a group then that is the group that wins. So in your previous post you made a few weeks ago you said you know the director of Findley tell him that a lot of people say congraulations on your win.
Wow... I never thought I'd see such nasty comments about a group as amazing as Findlay. Sometimes I think the negativity here on the site has gotten totally out of hand.
Everyone posting here is so hopped up about Mt. Zion not winning after their amazing year, but I'm almost certain that Findlay has been Grand Champion at all but one of their contests this season. The only competition they didn't win was DeKalb, where they finished 1st runner up to Teays Valley by one point. This is pretty typical of Findlay's records... I don't know where the shock factor comes in about them winning Showstoppers NYC. Unless you'd never heard of Findlay, you'd certainly know that they are one of the most dominating groups in the entire world of show choir.
Findlay is one of the very finest groups in the country, and they've competed with and beaten the best for many years. They may not get the People's Choice award from teenagers who like the hip-hoppy, contemporary feel of Mt. Zion, but you cannot reasonably deny the amazing leverl of perfection they have achieved.
Just to clarify, there have been no posts made by any Mt. Zion members on this thread. From those members I have spoken with, they are satisfied with their performance, had a blast in NYC, and congatulate FFE.
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Exactly! I was just giving them my reenforcement of how amazing their show is!
We ALL hope for placing as the number one group, and when we're truly in the running for that Grand Championship, no one can deny that we are, at the least, a little bit disappointed inside! While we know that 1st Runner Up is NOT losing (rather it's placing incredibly well!) most all of us have an initial reaction of that "loss" feeling. (No, I'm not saying MtZ had that, just a general statement )Mt. Zion is byfar the CLASSIEST group of people I have ever met, and in no way can ANYONE deny that that group takes everything they have for what it is, and love it! They have not complained ONE BIT about their placement - they are proud! Those of you defending other groups, take notice. The group you're arguing about is willing to sit back, probably read this, and just know they did an incredible job! They take nothing for granted and know they get what they earn! Kudos to them! Yeah MTZ! Keep it up! You're role models to all of us!
I'm still amazed that they were complaining about losing to Findlay and Mt Zion. I'd be so honered to compete with those two groups that if they kicked my right butt I'd roll over and offer up my left. WoO!
I mean, cool that they wanted to win so bad....I find that the only people that ever complain about "screwy scoring" are the ones that come in third or fourth, and they are the only ones that really care anyways.
While you're complaining about "weird score systems", keep in mind that you're taking the glory away from two groups that really deserve it, and it's not making you look so gracious. Have some class, and give the champs they credit that they worked their tails off for.
Okay, I'm not defending Greece Athena, well maybe I am... I feel like people are REALLY down on them right now, and I think it's sad for two reasons- 1. This is an opportunity for everyone to welcome a new group, a group that doesn't get to compete for a full season like the rest of us. 2. They aren't acting any differently than a lot of groups following a placement at a comp lower than they'd hoped for.
Also, one thing that not many people are keeping in mind is this- they don't compete in any show choir circuit outside of nationals. They don't know who the "top groups" are, who the most "respected" groups are, who the fan favorites are. They do their own thing, and my god, considering that they just magically appear at Nationals every year without spending a whole season seeing all these other strong groups, and do awesome- So is it really that suprising that they're disappointed they lost to Mt. Zion and Findlay?
I find it more frustrating when people who've been on SCC for over a year, and are in groups that compete all season long complain, because they DO know better.
Showstoppers New York City 2005
Sorry I was singing and I do not know the words. I loved your show this year. You girls rock.
)Mt. Zion is byfar the CLASSIEST group of people I have ever met, and in no way can ANYONE deny that that group takes everything they have for what it is, and love it! They have not complained ONE BIT about their placement - they are proud! Those of you defending other groups, take notice. The group you're arguing about is willing to sit back, probably read this, and just know they did an incredible job! They take nothing for granted and know they get what they earn! Kudos to them! Yeah MTZ!